1300 block same as 1500 block?

[molten]

Hello
As I understand it the block on both 1300 & 1500 are identical in spec?
Difference being that 1500 has longer throws on crankshaft?
So... if I hade a 1300 block, could I simply put 1500 crankshaft & 1500 head and away we go?

My run of good fortune as of late would suggest not as simple as that?

Cheers
Scott

[Doug Paterson]

The engine which has been in my car since before I bought it and is still going rather well 20,000 miles later would suggest that you are correct  :)

Its a DH (1300) block with 1500 components.

D

[thebrookster]

Yep!!

Near enough what I am planning with my engine right now, except I want run the 1300 head for a bit more uumpf!!

In fact, that is a good point Scott, if you already have a 1300 engine, including head, and the bores are standard size take a look at Rimmers, cause they had the US low Comp pistons for sale nice and cheap (as in approx a tenner each)! May be a cheaper option than a replacement head?

Will only work if your bores are still standard size and useable!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,

Phil

[molten]

Thanks Doug, your confidence is encouraging.
Hello Phil - nice to hear from you mate.

My problem is (amongst other things) is that the deck surface of my 1500 has corrosion pits which likely renders it useless, so considering other options. I may be able to pick up a 1300 engine complete for low cost with a view to swapping the crankshaft  the head from the 1500. This would be just to get a running motor on the chassis. I plan to build up another engine a bit more custom spec later but thought this option would get me 'running' sooner.
Was going to use mk3 camshaft to match journals or course if availible to give it a little more revs.
Will take a look at rimmers but they will likely go up now!!! not first time I have seen this.

Thanks
Scott

[thebrookster]

Aha, so you already have the 1500 engine! In which case disregard my earlier comment about it being cheaper, I was assuming you would have to source the head and crankshaft!!

Needless to say, if you are planning a 'custom spec' motor, and you are looking to base it on the 1500 engine, keep an eye on what I am posting as I have just started stripping my engine down so that I can convert it to a 1500, along with a wee bit more oompf, so to speak!

However, the pistons I was referring to are actually £12.50 each just now, and they are NOS!! Lightweight, and complete with rings and gudgeon pin. Only downside as I said is they are only available in the standard size. Causing me a minor problem, as my block has been bored out to +2thou.

[CharlieB]

2597 wrote:

My problem is (amongst other things) is that the deck surface of my 1500 has corrosion pits which likely renders it useless...

How deep are they? You can have the deck machined flat.

[molten]

CharlieB wrote:

How deep are they? You can have the deck machined flat.

Hi Charlie
Take a look at the pics in the link:
[Sorry, link no longer available]

I thought that as we are talking about a deck with flush crowned pistons, and material removed from the deck would also have to be removed from the piston crowns??
The bore liners as you can see are little recessed so may alow for some machining. Just to be sure though I mak take to a guy near me who rebuilds crossflow engines for formula fords - see what he thinks

Cheers

[mikew]

2597 wrote:

Hi Charlie
Take a look at the pics in the link:
[Sorry, link no longer available]

I thought that as we are talking about a deck with flush crowned pistons, and material removed from the deck would also have to be removed from the piston crowns??
The bore liners as you can see are little recessed so may alow for some machining. Just to be sure though I mak take to a guy near me who rebuilds crossflow engines for formula fords - see what he thinks

Cheers

Thats a recessed block and needs the late type head gasket. If you machine it flat it is likely the pistons will be proud of the block at TDC.

Trial assembly needed. fit crank and pistons and use a dial guage to see how far down the bore the pistons are at tdc. measure the recess in the block. if the recess is deeper than the pistons are down the bore, and you flat the block surface, ALL pistons will require machining to get level with block surface, unless you are going for a little "pop up", this should be less than the compressed head gasket thickness (30 thou ish), plus a margin for error, bearing wear, rod stretch etc say another 10thou.

get it wrong and pistons will hit head

mike

[molten]

mikew wrote:

Thats a recessed block and needs the late type head gasket. If you machine it flat it is likely the pistons will be proud of the block at TDC.

Trial assembly needed. fit crank and pistons and use a dial guage to see how far down the bore the pistons are at tdc. measure the recess in the block. if the recess is deeper than the pistons are down the bore, and you flat the block surface, ALL pistons will require machining to get level with block surface, unless you are going for a little "pop up", this should be less than the compressed head gasket thickness (30 thou ish), plus a margin for error, bearing wear, rod stretch etc say another 10thou.

get it wrong and pistons will hit head

mike

Cheers Mike
Your comments confirm my concerns. Will check dims. I think skimming the block deck to remove the 'pitting' will put me in that area of concern - hence my looking at other blocks/options. Even if there was 'room' to skim, not sure if piston crownws could take the same and still be ok in use??

M

[mikew]

2597 wrote:

not sure if piston crownws could take the same and still be ok in use??

depends upon the piston, the amount of skim and the compression ratio. I wouldn't worry about 20thou off, but too much and the crown will be too thin. Even if its physically strong enough, you need to remember about heat transfer and detonation. thinner crown will conduct the heat away less well, and might be less able to withstand a higher comression ratio, or detonation.

its not unheard of for people to skim these blocks flat and the take a similar amount off the pistons without issue, at least you can use a standard gasket then

mike

[CHRIS211083]

Second hand block £50 new block £125?????????????????

Chris.