MK1 head gasket

[Alex]

Just pulled the head off.
I'm not sure but there appears to be some sort of residue on either side of the gasket(only way to descibe it would be to say its like jelly?)would this be some kind of gasket sealer?

No obvious signs of where its gone :-/if indeed it has but I know it was boiling up I'd flushed everything and checked the thermostat operation.
Where do they tend to go when they run out of water causing a boil up?

The gasket was a copper type...payen perhaps? which I guess would be more likely to lift than blow/tear?

Do I just clean it all up and reassemble with a new gasket etc?


Thanks,
Alex

[neilnaz2]

Alex I have no experience of HGs but people do use sealants like Welseal. I believe you should clean all the residue off making sure nothing gets down the bores (etc). I think people use rags/paper to catch debris. I don't know whether it is a good idea to use fine emery paper to get rid of the last of the gunk but it sounds like a good idea to me.

I would wait to get advice from one that knows rather than paying particular attention to my ramblings!

Have you established that all the waterways are clear? I am just thinking that, if there isn't any obvious signs of HG failure, then the water isn't circulating somewhere. It sounds like you have checked most of this.

Best of luck. It's always interesting following your endeavours Alex  :)

[Alex]

Thanks Neil, I've done a few before but never as a result of a payen gasket letting go.
I guess really I'm after reassurance that it may not be obvious,and maybe someone wiser to say if I'm doing the right thing putting it back together.
The only thing I did find was one head stud not as tight at the back of the block under the exhaust...?

[Alex]

Oh and the core plug in the head looks like its been filled with fibreglass......Andy did you do that? ;)

[DJB_Harvey]

On Mk1s be very careful to torque up the nuts correctly using the correct nuts AND high tensile washers...this in my opinion is peoples downfall on these engines...Yes i know they are prone to blowing but by giving them the best chance the possibilities are reduced...they need at least 3 torquings after refitting..when first run/100 miles/500 miles COLD.The only sealer i would use on them is "Wellseal" but even that is not strictly needed. Only use a Payen gasket. Going up to 7/16" studs also helps BUT be warned that if you torque up the head to 65 lb ft on the manifold side it can warp the head as well !. Standard heads with 3/8 studs...48lb/ft....7/16 studs on modded engines...65lb/ft middle...50 lb/ft manifold side.

[Alex]

:-/I'd never have believed this had I not seen it!!

[DJB_Harvey]

Tut Tut....all for the sake of a 10 pence core plug....somebody needs shooting !!!

[willows40]

whats wrong with that it saved taking the head off :) just to make a point it was not to save money have core plugs, it was a quick and easy short term fix.
it pisses me off that everybody moans about things if not done by the book,some people use there cars instead of spending a fortune getting them to look good

[Alex]

willows40 wrote:

whats wrong with that it saved taking the head off :) just to make a point it was not to save money have core plugs, it was a quick and easy short term fix.

But it still leaked ;D ;)

No probs Andy I had wondered how the hell I was going to change it without removing the head....it just surprised me that was all :)

The gasket doesnt look that old but also looks like it could have been fitted to a dirty block I'm not certain just looking for ideas why and where it could have gone.Theres a receipt for a second hand head in about 97/98 so perhaps the gaskets older than it looks.

I'd have been happier if I could see 100% where it'd gone :-/

[junkuser]

Good thinking Willows.  Allows putting of replacing plug to a more convenient time at least.
Was that just normal fibreglass reinforced body filler?   What prep?

[Lord Sorbington]

lol, I tried that on my old BMW, I thought one of the core plugs was leaking.  I used that instant metal stuff.

The problem persisted but I eventually worked out that a windscreen washer hose on the underside of the bonnet was leaking slightly, the washer fluid dripped into the core plug and left a blue stain as it evaporated away.........

Glad I didn't jump in straight away and renew the core plug!

[willows40]

yes but not as bad as before, thats why i said it needed core plug doing. as far as i`m concerned don`t have a clue when the head gasket was last changed but like you said in the paperwork is stated it was done a while ago but the car has done no mileage, the guy i got it from had it for years and didn`t use it and it wasn`t moted until david picked it up for me.
alex like i have said i didn`t get on with the car so didn`t use it :) and wasn`t having a go at you
cheers andy  

[Alex]

No problem Andy,I realise your not responsible for the head gasket :)I was just having a dig about the core plug "repair" ;)only joking mate.....you picked up your new motor yet?

[willows40]

yes dolly sprint auto in need of major repair(rotton as a pear)but have a good 1500 shell with knacked gearbox so should be able to be sort something out ;D just going to take a bit of time as have to do the wife`s spitfire first

[Gwaredd]

If the core plug has been like that for some time, who knows how many times it might have boiled up? Be worth getting the head checked for warping & crack tested whilst it's off mate.

[Alex]

Chris Witor has advised me to fit it all up but not overtighten exhaust and inlet manifold.
Not to fill it with water but run it dry for four or five minutes....until I cant touch the head.
Then remove manifolds once its all cooled,retorque and then fill the system.Rather than having to retorque the head again later......make sense?

[James]

Are you reusing studs and nuts?

Both Hutch and I have done this on our mk1 engines - checked the torque and no difference. Done thousands of miles and still no difference.

Seems fine to me.

Of course no doubt I'll have the gasket go next weekend!

[Alex]

Yes reusing the studs and nuts.
I only want this engine as a stopgap until I fit my mk11 engine.
To be honest if the gasket pops on reassembly I'll just move my plans up a gear.

[Richard B]

The MkI's a lovely engine, just needs some little improvements.  ;)

[James]

Don't worry about it too much then Alex - if it's going to go it won't be because of the torque.

[Alex]

Fed up now.
I need to change the rear core plug in the head before refitting the head,however I ordered one yesterday which arrived today and its to small.
I'll now have to order another tomorrow and wait till thursday..... :'(
I just asked for a core plug for the back of the head on a mk1 1967/8 (as it was registered January 68 ) .
What a waste of a week :-/

[Greeks]

Alex, it's worth ordering a complete set really, they're not expensive and then you'll have some spares if ever needed.



... I have visions of you sitting in the garage all week twirling spanners while you wait for the postman   :P

[Alex]

Greeks wrote:

... I have visions of you sitting in the garage all week twirling spanners while you wait for the postman   :P

How can you see from there?

[Greeks]

I have an eye of providence... it's not my best eye, but it's pretty useful.

[Alex]

Job done.
Had a scare when I opened the gasket and it had a slight bend in it.
However following a call to C/T technical ;D ;)it was decided it was probably useable as it wasnt near a water or oilway it was right on one end.
Idealy I'd have ordered a new one and returned this one but time is not something I've got at the moment.

I've just driven it a couple of miles and the only drama when I opened the bonnet was a leaky pipe,clip tightened, leak stopped!
I guess time will tell. :)