1296 Toledo/Dolly engine light tuning

[Raider]

As many will know I have recently bought a Toledo for my daughter to learn to drive in.

I am surprised how little power there is available tho :-/

Bearing in mind I don't want to give the insurance companies any reason to lift the premiums what kind of tuning do we think can be done without going too far away from standard spec.

I am thinking electric fan (to release a couple of BHP and there's no way that can be seen as tuning surely), electronic ignition and what about a bit of tuning of the single SU carb?

I used to rally Minis and followed Mr Vizard's tuning tips for SUs - still have a modified 1/2" SU spindle somewhere. A K&N filter with a stub stack too?

Anything else?

[GT6 John]

Go faster stripes? :P

[2Toledos]

Well, that should keep you busy for the weekend, Martin :o

If I may add, on a not quite so technical note: If you're going to fit a K&N; make sure you fit some sort of cold air feed ducting, and get shot of the nasty wax-stat jet.

[Raider]

Blimey - those 2 replies are at both ends of the spectrum aren't they ;D

John - thanks mate ::)

Dave - I think that's probably a tad further than I had in mind :D I'll certainly keep the info tho - there's greats tuff in there

[Rumpith]

Get that paintwork polished - should add about 5mph to the top speed!

[Beans]

Probably more like 0.005 mph  :P

[Calorian]

Hey there,

Get a full body kit and stripes and under glow. Thats what they do in my area. Somebody really should tell them it doesn't  make them faster.

On a serious note: A couple of simple things include: A simple colour tune may help, just to get the right mixture of air and fuel going through the engine. Pancake air filters may help and maybe a s/s exhaust. (This maybe wrong of course assuming you can get them for the toledo and that they are of a bigger bore to the standard one? Correct me if im wrong :) ) and of course yes, the go faster stripes :)

All of the above maybe wrong, im not sure. The dolomite has had all of those things and it runs smoother and seems to have more power.

Cheers,

[Raider]

Thanks Calorian.

I am starting off with a service for the car and then we'll see after that. Getting the right mixture and checking the timing may ehlp too. It certainly starts very easily with very little choke and the plugs are quite sooty - running too rich?

I would think that a Spitfire tubular exhaust manifold would be a good idea but I don't think there's a "sport" exhaust available so that would mean having one made up :-/

I have taken note of Chris's point about a cold air feed for the carb and so haven't ordered a K&N (but have ordered a stub stack which should go in the existing air cleaner).

Still think an electric fan is a good idea too

[Crockett]

Calorian wrote:

Get a full body kit and stripes and under glow. Thats what they do in my area. Somebody really should tell them it doesn't  make them faster.

Sure it does. It worked for the Daleks on the new Doctor Who, why not for cars? :)

[trackerjack]

Dave has said it all but I would add that since my TR4 I have flowed the tops of inlet valves and the underneath of exhaust ones and I assure you it does make a big difference, my standard Stag would pull a genuine 125 mph on the flat.

[Raider]

This is  the level of "tuning " I had in mind ;D  Stubstack fitted inside the standard air filter, along with a new element and I intend rigging up cold air supply to the standard filter too - can't do any harm


In addition to getting the throttle to open fully, I am also trying to stop the exhaust manifold blowin, have fixed the number 1 plug lead which literally fell of the the plug :o and intend to work on the air/fuel mixture which seems way too rich.

Oh - and My minilites are now the car for a while with decent tyres. 8)

[PurpleBargeKen]

Hi Martin, looking good mate. Keep up the good work!

Sorry that you're finding probs with the plug leads, etc. I never got round to checking everything out :B

What does a stub stack do? Where can I get one, would it fit on my 1500fwd? Looks interesting but I am puzzled..... a bit.

Forgot to give you a set of unused black and silver plates for the car. They're not strictly legal given the age of the car but they might look interesting. Want 'em?

Ken

[Raider]

Ken - maybe one day on the plates!

Don't worry about the plug leads - I am working through everything in a systematic manner and am well pleased with the car.

Stubstack - well, quoting a fellow called David Vizard who wrote the "bible" on tuning A series engines "The first and most obvious modification to obtain more carburrettor airflow is to streamline the entry into the carb mouth". Ram pipes are a good way of doing this but if you want to keep an airfilter then you use a stub stack.

They are obtainable from Rimmers no problem - page 45 of their Dolomite catalogue in the K&N filters bit. I haven't actually fitted it yet but will do soon.

Combined with the modified throttle shaft I have it should increase airflow by 10%.

All nice and simple - of course I have no way of proving any of it and no doubt there will be different views out there but it can't do any harm.

[spitty71]

Martin, The standard air filter is gonna be pretty restrictive, I think you would be better off finding a k&n or a pair on HS4s the 4-2-1 will make a marked difference too.

[Raider]

I understand it will be restrictive but I am not intending to go wild with this anyway - I have a TR7 Sprint that needs attention you know.

In any event, as Chris 2Toledos said A K&N could do with a cold air supply rigging up and twin HS4s mean two lots of air filters etc = more dosh than I want to spend right now.

Same comment for the exhaust manifold - even if I got a manifold what happens to the rest of the system and I don't see many tuning bits for Toledos :D.

£15 spent on the stubstack plus the modified spindle will do  ;)

[dollyboy]

worth taking off the zorst manifold and wrapping in insulation bandage too.

i think mr sideways is a bit of a 1300 tuning wizard actually, however going to that extent on a plod about motor is a bit fanatical IMO.  you'll get similar gains with not so much work by doing what i pm'd you about on TDC, i.e. heavily skimmed 1500 head for better compression with double valve springs (eliminate valve bounce if you're giving it a spanking), inlet and outlet manifolds and a fast road cam.  totally right about the air filters, im leaving the air-box on mine, shouldnt need to mess about with jets, needles etc as my hs4's, manifolds etc came off a dolo 1500 and as such are set up correctly for same.

double springs will increase rate of cam wear, could be overcome by getting the cam followers nitrided, tubular push rods, roller rockers etc, but silly money, you'll end up with a spitfire fast road engine thats worth more than the car!

;D

[dollyboy]

:'(

i'm just thinking along lines of quick cheap easy upgrades, thats basically what im doing to my tolo anyway and ive never seen let alone read a triumph tune manual. dont need to when i have a jod to advise on ohv matters...  :D

not going to get into any engineering battle dave, you've already won, i agree all this porting and flowing n fettling will of course make a difference, but even more of a difference still if theres more 'stuff' to flow through it. dont really think anyone would get excited or emotional about declaring twin carbs rather than single on a motor with less power than the average 600cc motorbike, in fact i doubt theres many insurance assessors who could say with their hand on their heart whether a 1300 toledo was meant to have single or twin carbs.  in my case the extra torque is helpful anyway as i have a longer diff

[spitty71]

I think you might struggle to get more 'stuff' to flow through it with the standard air box?

[Silvery]

I tried twin HS2 carbs (cause I had a spare set) and no fan on a Dolomite 1300, and there was a marked improvement. IMO the single carb inlet manifold is p*ss poor, so even the smaller HS2 carbs on the not exactly wonderful twin inlet is worthwile. I didn't have an electric fan to hand so I just did a test run on an empty road to see what difference ditching the mechanical fan made - The car was quieter and felt slightly perkier.

Certainly there's more power to be had by machining bits and pieces, but for a half hour bolt on upgrade carbs and fan certainly seem to work :)

[dollyboy]

spitty71 wrote:

I think you might struggle to get more 'stuff' to flow through it with the standard air box?

its all relative, i meant the standard TC airbox, which has 2 pipes to the front of the engine bay, which is matched to the carbs, and therefore shouldnt require much messing to get set up right.

the normal single carb has the saucepan shaped thing, so twin carbs and matching air box vs single carb will be ample extra 'stuff'.

fan will take some load off the engine too, so electric is definitely the way to go, but one step at a time, i need to get the car back home first, then welded up (what a surprise) and mot'd before I start messing about with trying to make it go better...

just another toy at the end of the day, im not gona get too excited about it yet... she needs a paint job which will involve new window rubbers, black dolo interior and door cards etc... lot of work for a little toy

[Raider]

Good to compare tho.

I have stopped the exhaust blowing around the manifold and fitted the modified spindle to the carb along with refitting the "saucepan", this time with a stub stack in it and the car definitely feels more lively on my drive. :)

Frustrating tho is that I am not allowed to drive it (for medical reasons) at the moment so am waiting for one of the "named drivers" on the insurance to give it a go :-/

[PurpleBargeKen]

Nice one, sounds like you're getting there. Hope the tests went well.

Ken

[2Toledos]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Twin-Carbs-for-Triumph-Spitfire-1-1-4_W0QQitemZ330156760357QQihZ014QQcategoryZ27383QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

These would help give the Toledo a little more go, and they won't break the bank (only £15 at time of posting), either.
Nothing to do with me; just found them while waiting for a PC to sort out its HDD ::)
I'm sure some-one could sort you out with a proper air-box for them, too (don't have one myself).