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2500 engine change out


Longstroke

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Over the next couple of weekends I will be removing the rather tired and very smokey engine from my 73 2500TC and replacing it with a better one from a 74 2500. I was told that 1 litre of oil per 1000 miles was considered bad, I've been using more like 3-4 litres.....!

My TC is currently fitted with a BW35 auto with 128,000 miles on the clock.

The donor car currently has a 4 speed manual fitted and the car will be scrapped once the engine and any other bits I can pillage from it are removed.

My questions to the group about this exercise are as follows:

What is the best way to get the engines out of both cars?

Am I likely to run into any compatibility issues with placing an engine from a manual into an auto?

What works should I be looking at doing during the changeover? Engine mounts, gearbox rebuilds etc...

What carbies should I use? I have a set of Stromsburg’s which were fitted to the TC originally, a set of SU's from a 2500S currently fitted and the new engine is fitted with another set of Stromsburg’s. Any thoughts?

Does anyone from South East Australia (Ballarat/Melbourne) have any use for a 4 speed box (I believe 2nd gear is not functional) or any parts from a very very rusty shell?

Of interest I have been told that the engine number doesn't seem to align with the Triumph numbers and would appear to be a PI engine fitted with a set of carbies. However as it has a mechanical fuel pump I am a little suspicious of this claim....

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Take it you intend to stick with the auto box then and just do a straight engine swap rather than convert to manual while you are doing it?
Engines have to come out from the top on these, and I think you have to drop the suspension cross-member a couple of inches to get clearance for the sump too. On the auto there is a large rubber bung in the backplate near the bottom, this is the access to the bolts (four I think) that secure the flexplate to the torque convertor and have to come out before the engine can be removed. As the engine comes away from the 'box make sure the torque convertor is staying in the box and not stuck to the engine - careful prising may be needed- if the torque convertor comes too far out of the 'box not only will you get a big puddle of ATF on the floor, but the front 'box oil seal will almost certainly be damaged.

Once out main difference will be the flywheel on the manual and flexplate on the auto which will need changing over, I think along with the engine backplate as well. After removing the manual flywheel you'll need to remove the bush / bearing from the centre of the manual crank. The Auto flexplate is held on with shorter bolts than the flywheel ones but also has a hefty shouldered metal bush going through the middle into the end of the crank. Because, unlike a manual, this bush never moves in normal use you may have fun getting this out!

Once this is done reassaembly is, as the manuals say, a reversal of the removal procedure! Leave the starer out until you have lined up and inserted the torque convertor bolts as you may need this access to turn the convertor, then to lock the flywheel while you tighten them.
On Carbs I generally prefer SU's to Strommies, BUT would assess the condition of each set of carbs you have and go for the least worn set.

Good luck!

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I find the quickest way is  to take engine and gearbox out in one

Drop front cossmember with steering rack attached  -leaving struts and hubs in place,disconect track rod ends etc
Remove rear gearbox mount to floor  bolts
Remove engine cross-member from chassis

Drop engine and box on floor!

remember to unbolt prop ,cables,wire,exhaust , steering coupling etc etc before dropping engine onto floor! :)

you do need to have the front of the car high in the air ,taking the head off and head studs out first can help if you cant get the full  height

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212 wrote:


Of interest I have been told that the engine number doesn't seem to align with the Triumph numbers and would appear to be a PI engine fitted with a set of carbies. However as it has a mechanical fuel pump I am a little suspicious of this claim....


Does it start in MG and end in SS ? Spare units ex factory

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Hello LS,

I agree with AJP, drop the lot out the bottom, they are not designed to be removed out of the top.
If you want to use the manual gearbox, ( I would) then you need the pedal box from the donor car plus hydraulics etc, and the propellor shaft also. In the interest of relaxed cruising, swap the differential also as it should be a higher ratio (I think, if it's not I'm sure someone will correct me)

Alec

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I put my mk2 engine in from the top, in fact many times ;)
On a mk2 theres more room than on a mk1,you need a good engine hoist or a high beam and winch though.Get the car high up so you can get the box to clear the floor and bob's your uncle!

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At this stage it's looking likely that the whole lot will come out from the bottom. I will access to a hoist for some of the time changeover process so it will probably be easier to slacken as much as possible and then place it up in the air to do the rest. Might have to be careful not to drop the whole lot onto the ground from a great height!

In regards to the auto box I want to keep it. We have a 4 speed manual + overdrive in the family already and while the box is a good one  especially out on the highway most of my driving is done in the city which makes the auto just about perfect. My deliema is how far to go with the box. It will need a couple of seals replaced as it does tend to use a bit of oil. But as to bands and whatever else is in there I have no real idea!

I will see the car again on the weekend so will have to get back to you in regards to the engine number. The rest of the car seems fairly standard so until then I guess we'll have to wait and see what it brings. Is there a good online resource which has the details of what the different prefixes actually mean? For example the current engine is an MK....

Any more suggestions in regards to the carbies? I like the SU's however I do miss the roar from the Stomburg's. It may yet come down to which ever is the least worn. Although I have the facilities to rebush a set should I so desire.....

And finally any other works which I should undertake while the engine bay is empty?

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If you feel like a drive across to Adelaide I have a good Borg Warner 35 automatic lying on the floor in my garage. I have absolutely no intention of reusing it and you can have it for nothing. The centre tore out of the flex plate and the car was sidelined to my "spares" department. I have now fitted a Commodore V6 and 4 speed auto into the car and eventually it will return to road use - should make for a fun car!?   8)

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Good points from F!xa about making sure the torque converter stays with the gearbox and swapping to the automatic's engine backplate (this has an extra hole for accessing the four torque converter bolts - I think manual and auto backplates are otherwise the same).

However I disagree about taking the engine through the top.  It's so much easier to drop it downwards, with or without gearbox.  I've lifted an engine out of the top a couple of times, on a Mk1, and what a palaver it was.  That was almost 40 years ago but I still remember it well!

The next time I wanted to take an engine out I built a frame for it to drop down onto.  This was mounted on casters and made moving the engine about, and working on its top and sides, very easy.  The frame is a snug fit under the sump flange and the whole thing is very stable.  The car body has to be lifted quite high to clear the frame/engine though.  I still have the frame and use it to store a spare 'short engine' under the workbench.

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David I've not tried to fit/remove a mk1 engine...yet.
However theres alot more room in a mk2 engine bay due to the heater being inside the car.
I've fitted 3 and removed 2 engines on a mk2 and its very easy providing you use a winch from above or a long beamed engine hoist.
Twice I've fitted the engine with a j type box on the back and once removed one with an auto.

Alex

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Alex wrote:

I've fitted 3 and removed 2 engines on a mk2 and its very easy providing you use a winch from above or a long beamed engine hoist.
Twice I've fitted the engine with a j type box on the back and once removed one with an auto.

Alex


Alex would there be anything to be gained by raising the rear of the car when removing the engine and transmission together? You then wouldn't need to have the tail of the 'box hanging down so far to go into the transmission tunnel!

Colin

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I would think if you lift the rear you would still need to lift the front(perhaps even higher than without?)so that the tail of the box clears on the initial drop in......
You drop the engine and box in at quite an angle initially.

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Alex wrote:
David I've not tried to fit/remove a mk1 engine...yet.
However theres alot more room in a mk2 engine bay due to the heater being inside the car.
I've fitted 3 and removed 2 engines on a mk2 and its very easy providing you use a winch from above or a long beamed engine hoist.
Twice I've fitted the engine with a j type box on the back and once removed one with an auto.

Alex

Alex, I see what you mean.  But not so easy if you don't have a roof beam able to take the weight, or need to hire in a long-beamed hoist - first to remove the engine and later to refit it.  Both ways seem to have advantages and disadvantages and it's clearly a case of "whatever suits best".

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Time for an update!

Well the slightly (cough cough) car was delivered last week and what a mess. We ended up taking the engine complete with gearbox out of the top which actually seemed to work out alright in the end. It all made for a good practice run for when we get to do the real thing this weekend with my car. From a rough first impression the engine looks in ok shape although there appears to be a little bit of rust on the rockers. I think a strip down of at least them might well be in order. Of interest there is no engine number present on the engine. The sellers’ story of an odd number seems a bit odd if you ask me. A closer inspection seems to reveal the very faint remnants of a number, looks like the block has been machined at some point. What advantage would there be in doing this?

Apart from the engine I was able to salvage a substantial amount of little bits and pieces from the car some of which were in better condition than those on my car. I also still have a gearbox up for grabs if anyone is interested.

Now to start the real work on getting my car back on the road. Did 100 miles on the weekend and I think we burnt/leaked a litre of oil!

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Usually if the block & pistons have been decked.

(ie combustion chambers balanced for volume and the wasted volume under the squish area reduced).

Is sign that the engine has been worked on, usually in conjuction with balancing the rotating assembly, not guaranteed though. Check if the crank has evidence of machining on the weights.

If so the flywheel and clutch pressure plates will be marked to keep their relative orientation.





Either that or the engine has been nicked and some scumbag has ground off the identification mark.

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