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Engine advice please


stevef

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I'm fed up, need a shoulder to cry on and some advice please.
My engine has got water in the V - a lot, what looks like steam coming out of the oil filler and the temperature is now up to the red within 5 or 6 miles of non-stop driving. It had no thermostat, the water pump cover has been replaced and it was all but destroyed by water so goodness knows what the rest of the engine looks like.
It sounds like an engine rebuild to me.
opinions, advice, recommended engine rebuilders, an idea of cost or anything at all please as my first foray in to the world of Stags has not gone well and I just don't know where to go from here.
Oh and I've run out of beer.... :'(
Thanks.

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No that news is not good.  FIrst questions - how much have you got to spend and what mechanical knowlege, ability and facilities do you have?

Next question - what is the oil pressure like?  If that's ok you may just need head work, if not then it ought to be a full rebuild.

Most important - DONT run it in the red - if you cook the engine properly, you warp the heads, then have to add machining onto the costs.

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I agree with everyone, this sounds like it's well worn.

In need of complete rebuild, and with the Stag engine, you have to do it properly, there are no short cuts.

You need to go to someone who knows what they are doing.

So, EJ Wards, Leciester
Faversham Classics

Are the two that I know of who will do a good job. Cost, you're looking £2 - £2.5k for a full engine rebuild like new. If the bottom end is ok, then you might get away with just doing the heads, cost about £600 per head............

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Alex,

Always a possibility, but Stag engines are notoriously difficult, and if the car is a rot box, chances are the money won't have been spent on the engine in the first place, so its likely to be knackered too!

Cooling is the stags weak point. The alloy block castings had sand left in them at the factory, plus people didn't know that these engines need good antifreeze, changed regularly. So, they overheat, heads warp, oil thins and knocks out the crank or the jackshaft (drives the oil pump and water pump) seizes and spells the end.
You can pick up used engines (going rate seems about £900-£1000) but, sometimes these need rebuilding too!

If you can afford it, get it done once get it done right, and your engine will last another 100k+. Change the antifreeze every year, change the timing chains (good quality german ones) every 20k and it'll run forever.

I'm lucky, I bought my Stag with the engine fully rebuilt having done about 100 miles from fresh. It was built by Andy Roberts, hence its done right. If I look after it, it'll never need doing again!

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Don't know about Faversham, but I'm sorry to say those prices are not 100% accurate - I went through all this last summer, from memory EJW quoted £3k + VAT and Tony Hart £4k + VAT for a full rebuild.  

I went down the DIY route with some valued input from GTEVO, the engine parts alone cost over £800, the machining/cleaning another £500 and the engine anciliaries and consumables (ie. oil, belts, hoses etc) £260 - Total around £1600 before any labour comes into consideration  :(

Pleased with the result though - engine is way better than it's ever been before!

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Unfortunately I agree with what's been said above, any 1 of the faults listed might not be too terrible but when you add them all together..............Still looking on the bright side, the one question which you raised that no-one else has answered yet is easily sorted.......go to your local 'Offy', the beer's much cheaper than the engine rebuild   ;D  (Sorry, this is in really poor taste! )

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AlanChatterton wrote:
  change the timing chains (good quality german ones) every 20k


Agree with most of what said here but timing chains every 20K is complete overkill.

My engine was just rebuilt and although we changed all the timing gear, wear was not that great and everything was well within limits... this was after well over 50K miles and plenty of use of 6000+ revs. It was quiet as a mouse on start up.

I agree that chains are a maintenance item but not to the extent that people think. Dolomite 1850's and TR7 hardly get a new chain that often and they keep going OK for much greater mileages.  I think the paranoia stems from the destruction that can occur if a chain slips but generally loose chains give plenty of warning....

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Thanks to everybody for the words of wisdom.
I think that I probably knew that it was time for a major rebuild but still hoped that it wouldn't be so soon.
I've only ever rebuilt one engine before and that was a Lotus 907 that was seized but unlike my Stag engine, not made of cheese.
I'm stuck in a dilemma no doubt frequented by all car buffs - is the car worth it - flog it or persevere, rebuild the engine myself or get it done by a specialist etc. Unfortunately nobody can answer these but me and eventually cash will sort out the latter argument. I could well have spent what I have on the car and an engine rebuild only for it to go PHUTT in a big way 6 months down the road so as has been said, once it is done, it is done.
For info, I've got some pricing ranging from £3-£4K ex VAT and fitting so for the meantime, I'll sit on the sidelines and probably get my car SORN'd to save on road tax.

Thanks again.

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AlanChatterton wrote:


You need to go to someone who knows what they are doing.

(Oh yeaaa!!!)

So, EJ Wards, Leciester
Faversham Classics

Are the two that I know of who will do a good job. Cost, you're looking £2 - £2.5k for a full engine rebuild like new. If the bottom end is ok, then you might get away with just doing the heads, cost about £600 per head............


Yes and EJ Wards were the ones who supplied us that totally F..ckkd up crankshaft last August....
Goodbye don't even talk to me about them I will seriously loose my temper!!!!!

Wanna see the photos??? You're welcome!!!  >:( >:(  :o

Now let me see....how long did it take to polish ???? 6, 10, 12 or 15 hours????

If I catch the lamer who ground it I would stuff it up his......... ;D

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Stating the obvious the major difference between doing it yourself and getting an expert is the labour cost.  To narrow down your choices, if you have the money but not the time use an expert.  If you have the time you can save yourself a lot of money by DIY.

Unless of course you want to get the car on the road very quickly which probably means pay up and use an expert.

If you have little money and no time buy as much beer as you can afford and drink it as quickly as possible in the time you have.

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Quote:
Yes and EJ Wards were the ones who supplied us that totally F..ckkd up crankshaft last August....


Gareth I thought there was to be no slagging off of traders on this forum?

If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all, or at least be circumspect & polite.

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I cant deny that crank was naff, but it came up good with a bit of elbow grease in the end, eh Gareth?   ;D

Maybe it was a one off bad-un?  Who knows.  I've discussed it with them, will take up the pics and have a root around their pile to see what the rest of their stock is like when I pop up for a visit when Stag back on road.  

Cant fault them on customer service - they sent a bad prop too, remember - but within two days of the phone call another turned up from them via Rimmers (they had no others in stock).  Can't fault that.  We couldn't do that with the crank as we specifically needed a 10/10 to match the Vandervells, so had to deal with what we got!

Suspect all the traders suffer the blight of a sub-standard part or two in their stocks at any one time - a subject aired to death elsewhere  :)

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Richard_B wrote:


Gareth I thought there was to be no slagging off of traders on this forum?

If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all, or at least be circumspect & polite.


I don't mind naming names...the crank was ground by some d.ck.h...d at Coventry boring and metaling.
My usual guys...S Cerney eng....fooled about with it for 2 days (usual excuse some employee failed to come to work on monday!!), then STILL failed to get the right result, meaning I had to do it myself - AS USUAL!!!

I think if you had been forced to do 3 trips from Essex to Cirencester
and back for one ordinary V8 then you might be a little less than polite....(don't you think?)

Then of course perhaps ppl don't really want jobs doing right any more in the UK.....I think I can name on one hand the co.s that can be trusted to do something properly at all.  ::)

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But maybe its not so bad.  Water in the Vee could be caused by the manifold not being fitted properly after the pump cover was changed. Maybe the wrong type of cover is matched to the water pump. Maybe the Radiator and block are full of rad weld type goo to try and stop a previous water leak. Maybe the steam coming from the oil filler is a bit of back pressure but nothing to worry about. Maybe the Stat is faulty. Maybe it just needs a real good engine flush and the manifold sealing along with the correct type water pump cover or maybe its knackered.
Whenever a Stag Temp needle goes in the red then everyone assumes its engine rebuild time.

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All good points Wakady.
The faces of the inlet manifold look like they've very lightly been skimmed to make them flat. There is now the chance that the manfild can not sit correctly on to the heads - it's smaller now. And yes, the water pump cover could still have a small leak which all contributes to an increase in leakage.
I might have a shufty when it's a bit warmer in the garage though for the life of me, I can't see how to get the carbs off

With a radiator flush, I'm assuming a hosepipe in the bottom outlet of the radiator will suffice and an engine flush would be with a commercial product?

If this sort of remedial work could at least make it behave for a while, I'd be a happy bunny
Thanks again.

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Steve

For good measure I'd also reverse flush the heater matrix. Make sure you drain the block by opening the drain plugs on each side of the engine (located below the exhaust manifolds). If you don't do this you will leave a lot of the old coolant in the engine. If you don't get free flow from the drain holes, poke them with a stout bit of wire or similar until they clear.

Tip - due of the location of the bottom hose connection, getting all the crud out of the radiator can be difficult. There's no substitute for taking the radiator out so you can flush it by giving it a bloody good shake - doesn't take long to remove/refit.

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