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Ford 302 5.0 Litre V8 Windsor engine in a Stag


Peterjbay

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Greetings
I am about to purchase a Mk 2 Stag rolling chassis, and plan to fit a Ford 302 Cu in V8 5.0 Litre Windsor engine in it, coupled to a Toyota Supra W58 manual transmission.
I already own a Mk 2 Stag with the genuine Triumph 3.0 V8 Engine and BW Model 65 Auto transmission.

I live in Jeffreys Bay, South Africa - there are fewer than 50 Stags in the whole of the country!

Does anyone have any experience of this conversion, tips etc?
I see that there are a couple on the USA websites - mostly with C4 auto boxes.

I realise that in the UK, the most common conversion is Rover V8 - 3.5, 3.9, 4.0 or 4.6 as this engine is pretty common in the UK.

Those engines are relatively rare in South Africa, and parts are expensive - especially tuning parts to get reasonable power and torque.

Genuine Stag engines are like hens teeth, and with no disrespect, I would rather fit a relatively powerful and reliable Detroit engine.

Ford 302 Windsor engines are also relatively rare in SA, but can be obtained pretty cheaply from "cut-out" importers that supply to the the street-rod fraternity.

The 302 Windsor is almost identical in weight to the Stag engine, so no ride height / spring / suspension issues. :)
The standard power rating is nominallly around 200 BHP, but can vary depending on the donor vehicle (car versus truck, level of emmission equipment, injection versus carb etc.)

My goal is to use old technology - 4 bbl carb and distributor, and have not fewer than 220 Bhp available.

The Toyota gearbox is in plentiful supply from one of the many used Japanese importers. They are cheap and absolutely bullet-proof.

Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas etc would be most welcome and greatly appreciated.
Does anyone have intimate knowledge of such a conversion having been done?

One non-negotiable requirement that I have is "no bonnet bulge"!
I realise that the diff and side shafts will be a potential weak point, but I am no boy racer  8)- I want the power and torque of the Windsor engine there for the occasional "burn", not to sign my name in rubber on the tarmac!

I should perhaps also mention that I also own a 1971 CP TR6, and have 2 spare engines from Triumph 2500 TC's.

I have often wondered why converters did not simply put the TR6 engine (not the 2500 TC unit) in place of the Stag unit, in cases where the Stag unit expires - the nominal BHP is almost identical, although the torque comes in lower and the engine does not rev as well as the Stag unit.

My TR6 has a Stage 3 head and sports exhaust, and will leave the Stag in it's dust.

I have also thought about saving myself $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and fitting one of my 2.5 engines in the Stag.

Problem is, I LOVE the sound of the V8 engine, and the thought of the Stag with manual 5 speed transmission and powerful reliable 5.0 litre V8 is too tempting.

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roger_keys wrote:
TBH, i wouldn't use a small block ford, or any other cast iron V8. It will bugger up the handling in a big way, all that extra weight over the front axle.

Try useing an LS1/2 engine. Much easier to get in your part of the world too.



A lot of those SB fords come with alloy heads now... weight ~ more or less equal to a straight six

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roger_keys wrote:
TBH, i wouldn't use a small block ford, or any other cast iron V8. It will bugger up the handling in a big way, all that extra weight over the front axle.

Try useing an LS1/2 engine. Much easier to get in your part of the world too.



Hi
The TV8 Stag engine weighs 446 lbs versus 460 lbs for the 5.0 Windsor with cast iron heads and 420 lbs for the Windsor with alloy heads, so there is no real weight issue. Both engines are V8 configuration, so the "extra weight" over the front axle will be zero - no effect on handling.

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GT6_User_and_Abuser wrote:
BMW diff required.

My mate stuck a tuned up 5.7 chevy in his stag and didnt blow it. And he doesnt hang about!



Hi
I think that you are 100% right - the standard Stag diff is Ok for the TV8 Stag engine at around 165 ft lbs torque, but the 5.0 Windsor engine puts out closer to 300 ft lbs.
Torque is the issue here, not bhp (which is simply a function of torque x rpm - the Windsor engine is a lazy low revving engine in standard trim).

Surely the big diff killer would be wheelspins and pull-away from rest - maximum inertia.
Once the vehicle is moving and has momentum, even flooring the loud pedal will not put anything like the strain on the diff that a wheelspin start from rest will?

Chev LS1 /2 engines also weigh about 470 lbs, but cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
I think that they are also wider and taller than the Ford windsor.

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royboy66 wrote:
Peter, post some pics! we like pics!

Jeffreys Bay !!?  

Jou motors klink  baie lekker.  Hoe gaan dit daar onder by die see  is dit lekker warm?

Roy 8)

Dankie, man.
Dis mos baie lekker in J bay - ons bly in 'n strandhuis by die see.
Die weer is matig - nog nie warm nie - ons wag vir somer!

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GT6_User_and_Abuser wrote:



Zackly Roy! Just what I was thinking.


Ma missus was all like "you fancy chinese for dinner"

and I was all like, ' nah man, maar sommige vuil seks klink  baie lekker alhoewel!"


VUIL seks? wat kan dit nou wees? As jy jou bokkie gryp nadat jy die Stag se enjin uitgehaal het sonder om jou hande te was?

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Thanks for all the advice and support, lads  - much appreciated.

Had an "OMG" moment yesterday - I can get a 95 Mustang 302 cu in Windsor Engine and manual Borg Warner T5 gearbox at a reasonable price (from an Indian fellow in Durban, and all, man).

There goes a big chunk of my Christmas bonus - just got to find away to avoid the wife divorcing me when she finds out! >:(

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Don't tell her !


Good luck with your V8 transplant. Not only will the original diff not be strong enough to take the torque, but you may also want to change the final drive ratio, depending on gearing ratios. Maybe the BMW rear axle sounds like a good idea?

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Sounds like an interesting development. I look forward to some pictures. If the Stag diff won't take it, then this is an alternative to the BMW option:

http://flickr.com/photos/12619047@N04/

Further details on triumphstag.net

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lagerzok wrote:


A lot of those SB fords come with alloy heads now... weight ~ more or less equal to a straight six




That may well be, but its the straight six that is to heavy to begin with. Plus its a stag.
Once you have driven a saloon/stag etc with something as light as a RoverV8 in it, its difficult to comprehend a straight six again. Just makes so much difference to the way it drives and handles.

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stag_ste wrote:
Don't tell her !


Good luck with your V8 transplant. Not only will the original diff not be strong enough to take the torque, but you may also want to change the final drive ratio, depending on gearing ratios. Maybe the BMW rear axle sounds like a good idea?


Once you have that much torque at quite low rpm, the 3.45 diff is far from ideal. I went to 3.08:1 even with a weedy little rover v8. Problem is, though i may be wrong here, you cant get anything higher than 3.45:1 for the stock diff.

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