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Toldeo engine into Spitfire


Howard81

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I am building up a new 1300 engine for my Spitfire based around an early 1974-ish Toledo block I have in my garage.  The plan is to completely strip it down and rebuild it with a better cam, HS4 carbs, etc to make it a fun road car.  Nothing too lairy, but hopefully end up with something fun ;D

It's stripped down already - cam is shot, as are the crank bearings, but the crank itself is okay.

What do I need to change on the Toledo engine in order to fit it into my Spitfire?  It's a 1970 MKIV. 8)

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As above, just did that a few months ago.
Biggest problem is lack of decent exhaust manifold....the dolly/spit 1500 cast effort seems to be the best available, but that means I can't use the HIF44 single carb :'( Its a real shame a 4>2>1 isn't available, unless somebody knows better.

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As an alternative, you really would be better off starting with a small bearing engine (spit 3, hearld GE engine or RD RF from dolly??)
That will spin up better etc and if doing all that work start with an advantage? heads etc swappable as are pistons and so on.
Re lightening etc it seems most machine shops offer this, but ask for local places that are recommended?

The head on your spitfire may well be a good one if correct, I think they used the big valves or something. IIRC some of the early spit ivs had the mk3 cam too, or was I dreaming....
Good idea to get the CR right too.
As for the pistons/conrods, I did some DIY balancing with digital kitchen scales, each pair within 1g is better than factory spec. Dont forget to hone the bores of the block too, essential or new rings won't bed in.

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To be honest, I thought about that, but as I have the Toldeo block in the garage it is rather conveinient!

The engine currently in my Spit is a manky and rather sick 1500 from a very early 1500 Midget (engine number is FP39E !).  Original block for my Spit was FH381HE, according to the Heritage certificate.

Original plan was to rebuild with new bearings, etc and throw in a fun cam with the HS4's and manifold off the 1500.  Still making up my mind about the lightening though, depends on price I guess!

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You could just use the the std 1300 flywheel and clutch, and it is very easy to spend significant wadges on the engine, it all adds up!
Best money would probably be in a decent 3 angle seat in the head, and get the cr right. That will depend on the cam! cam of choice (spit 3 profile is a good all-rounder, my TH5 is a little lumpy at idle) and a proper 4 branch manifold. If going for high top-end power the hs4's will help, but the HS2's are not too shabby! Guess with a cam etc the bigger carbs will help. It is all a bit of a faff this modifying. Last part is ditributer advance, something I have played with a little, but without great success so far :B

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That sounds pretty reasonable!

So... a standard Toldeo (DH) bottom end with new high quality bearings (might balance the rods as that is pretty easy to do).  Spit3 cam, new followers, HS4 carbs.  Hone the bores and new piston rings.  Bit of port matching and smoothing in the head/manifold.  Standard 1500 exhaust and manifold.  I'll keep the 1300 clutch/flywheel setup.

Seems like a pretty good balance between cost and performance with the parts I already have.

Then I can get a better block and have a play with that when time/funds allow :)

How does that sound?

Actually, will a standard Spit 3 cam fit in my DH block?  I thought a Spit 3 had cam bearings?

Pictures of the current block stripped down: http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/tdf/1300rebuild/

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I "think" you can install the bearings into the block, IIRC they don't need any extra machining work. Check though! I know that it is possible to get the mk3 profile to fit the later blocks.
Still think you need that 4 branch manifold, I would give my eye teeth to get one on my toledo. One of the first and best things to do to these engines.

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If you don't have a guide for lightening the connecting rods, there is a diagram in the factory's US Competition Manual, originals or copies of which can often be found fairly inexpensively on eBay:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=spitfire+competition+manual&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=pitfire+competition+manual&_osacat=0

FYI:  The first editions were put together by Triumph's US competition director Kas Kastner, who has revised & expanded the information in three (more expensive) books on his web site.

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rotoflex wrote:
If you don't have a guide for lightening the connecting rods, there is a diagram in the factory's US Competition Manual, originals or copies of which can often be found fairly inexpensively on eBay:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=spitfire+competition+manual&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=pitfire+competition+manual&_osacat=0

FYI:  The first editions were put together by Triumph's US competition director Kas Kastner, who has revised & expanded the information in three (more expensive) books on his web site.


Fantastic, thanks for that!  Just bought one for just over 6 quid... bargain! 8)

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