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Engine Preheaters !!!!!!!


CHRIS211083

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Hi all, winter is closing in and petrol is still very high in price. The solution in my mind is a engine preheater. This heats you cars coolant system up to operating temperatures Which allows you start your engine with no choke(saving fuel) and drive away with heat in the cars heater immediately. I looked into this last year and was shocked to find that the Kenlowe preheater was £350.!!!!! (oh) Which means that is would take about 3 years for it to pay for itself. However I have found this guy on ebay selling his preheaters for £125. This means that it will pay for itself in one winter on the fuel alone you save from not using the choke everyday. However you say how much does it cost in electricity????? 10p per 20min use is the answer. So ten pence a use, this will really save you fuel if you intend to use your car through winter. This preheater will also increase the life of your engine to and a hole bunch of other stuff but the main things for me was the:

1.Save Cash
2.Better for the enviroment.
3.longer engine life.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190586306368#ht_1193wt_973

Here is the link, he is getting pre orders in for his october delivery. These things are gonna go fast so thought I'd give you all a heads up. I have no connection ton the person selling etc....... Just want to make you all aware of my little find.

My wife is buying two of these for us, one for my birthday this month and one for her classic mini. So if you want one get your order in. I will give a write up when mine arrives.

Drive safe.

Chris.

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Quote:
My wife is buying two of these for us, one for my birthday this month and one for her classic mini. So if you want one get your order in. I will give a write up when mine arrives.


Quality! My Mrs bought me a carb balancer once.

Let us know how you get on, very interested to hear how well it fits/works etc

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£125!!!!!!!!

You are joking, Chris, aren't you?!
Get yourself a cold frame heater.  Little flat paraffin heater, goes under the car's engine. costs less than £20:
http://www.twowests.co.uk/TwoWestsSite/pages/product/product.asp?prod=HEPTINY&cookie%5Ftest=1
Only problem is, paraffin costs the same as diesel!  But it'll burn for a week on two litres.
Don't forget to open the garage doors at least 15 minutes before you go in there - lots of CO!

If you want to know how people deal with really cold winters, go to Canada.  There, you can buy flat heating pads that glue to the bottom of the sump, or anywhere you want kept warm.   Much, much simpler than plumbing in a water heater.
Just Google for "engine warmer".

Or, cheapest of all to fit, put a 100W bulb on an extension cable and leave it under the engine.  Completely safe and you can drive off without unplugging it!
John

PS Quick!  Buy some 100W bulbs before they all go "ecological"!

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I be interested in one just from the point of view of preheating the engine before starting from the wear point of view. But come on, how much money in fuel would you be saving?! That is being pretty tight!  
;)

Our generator sets in work are maintained at 60 degrees C around the clock for easy starting and less engine wear on start up.

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How much are you saving........Well at £1.30 per litre of fuel........and only 10p per use the saving is quite a bit and thats if your carbs have been tuned properly.


John D, love your enthusiasm but there is no way I'm gonna light a fire under my sump......Also my car is out side......It is also very easy to install one of these heaters, especially on the spitfire. I'll do a wee write up and let you know my experiences.

Chris.

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Nick in mid winter I was getting to work with the temp gauge just hitting norm (8 miles) with the mechanical fan. I even started covering three quarters of the rad with card board to help keep it warm while travelling. In the end I bought the Kenlowe fan but I think I'll still have to cover the rad up if I don't get the Pre heater. Totally know what you mean, also on the larger engines which will use more fuel on choke the savings will be greater.

Chris.

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Chris, where do reckon you're gonna mount the plug? For me the ideal solution will be something that doesn't require lifting the bonnet every time I use it, but on the other hand isn't readily visible on the outside of the car. Still not sure where that could be!

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Hello mate am one step ahead of you........... My front grille self destructed and was removed before the mot and now a mesh grille sits in its place. However there is too much air flow going under the bonnet. So I'm going to make a panel to close off part of the grille area. Part of this panel will have a flip front on it with a closed off box behind it containing the length of cable and plug. A bit like a petrol flap, that's the idea anyway.

Chris.

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Will the cost of operating an electrical esistance heater be less than the fuel cost of starting from cold?

It seems to me that a better solution would be a small fission reactor located under the bonnet, sharing the engine's water system for its own cooling.  In the winter, when parked, the reactor would keep the engine coolant warm and provide a charge for the battery.

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Hello John,

"Or, cheapest of all to fit, put a 100W bulb on an extension cable and leave it under the engine.  Completely safe and you can drive off without unplugging it!"

Come on John, that would be totally useless, 100watt, in heating terms,  might do a small goldfish tank.

Alec

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2402 wrote:
Nick in mid winter I was getting to work with the temp gauge just hitting norm (8 miles) with the mechanical fan. I even started covering three quarters of the rad with card board to help keep it warm while travelling. In the end I bought the Kenlowe fan but I think I'll still have to cover the rad up if I don't get the Pre heater. Totally know what you mean, also on the larger engines which will use more fuel on choke the savings will be greater.

Chris.


Time for a new thermostat?  Either of my Triumphs is up to temperature within a mile and the managerial Focus beats that (as did her previous GTI).  The TDI Soot Monster is a whole different game though that will cool down from normal if you get a long enough stretch downhill, even though the thermostat has closed.  There was a factory option for a heater pre-heater (!) - basically a glowplug mounted in the inlet line to the heater matrix - unfortunately mine doesn't have it.

Nick

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JohnD wrote:


If you want to know how people deal with really cold winters, go to Canada.  There, you can buy flat heating pads that glue to the bottom of the sump, or anywhere you want kept warm.   Much, much simpler than plumbing in a water heater.
Just Google for "engine warmer".


Hmmm.....got me thinking here, my spit is parked outside on my drive and used daily(ish) and winter engine has a 50:50 chance of starting due to slow cranking (thick cold oil)......  so ordered a solar trickle charger to keep the battery topped up and had a rummage at work and removed a 24v heated mirror element of a scrap truck mirror glass and found a 240v 24v transformer off an inflatable 6ft snowman.!

Hoping to stick the element on the engine sump via silicone sealant and wire in a connector so i can plug in outside the house an hour or so before i plan to set off.

Any thoughts before i set about it or am i wasting my time ...(think)   ::)

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uksnatcher wrote:


Hmmm.....got me thinking here, my car is parked outside on my drive and used daily(ish) and winter engine has a 50:50 chance of starting due to slow cranking (thick cold oil)......  so ordered a solar trickle charger to keep the battery topped up and had a rummage at work and removed a 24v heated mirror element of a scrap truck mirror glass and found a 240v 24v transformer off an inflatable 6ft snowman.!

Hoping to stick the element on the engine sump via silicone sealant and wire in a connector so i can plug in outside the house an hour or so before i plan to set off.

Any thoughts before i set about it or am i wasting my time ...(think)   ::)


Smee..

I got one of those solar chargers..........its in a recycling depot somewhere
My dad always used a parrafin lamp under the car ,in a biscuit  tin (Health and Safety 1960`s style)
Never ever had a problem in starting
Went to Canada and saw all sorts of pre heat stuff, which if they can`t get right then theres something wrong
http://www.canadiantire.ca/search/search_results.jsp;jsessionid=TfzCbHz2hXNg5RKYBDQX9QqYJz9dV41yG5gNdWXNG9mxPTzJ97D0!980798049?bmForm=form_endeca_search&bmFormID=1319105507690&bmUID=1319105507690&bmIsForm=true&bmPrevTemplate=%2FAST%2Fbrowse%2F4%2FAuto.jsp&bmHidden=OMNITURE_FROM&OMNITURE_FROM=Search&bmHidden=event26&event26=true&bmText=quick_search_term&quick_search_term=engine+pre+heaters&bmSubmit=quick_search&bmHidden=FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672395

Will check when go over again
After Alberta, Scotlands like a summer camp ;)

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Hello Gaz,

"Any thoughts before i set about it or am i wasting my time"

I'd say yes, see my comment about the 100 watt light bulb and I bet your mirror heater is far less wattage than that, plus the silicone will act as an insulator.

Alec

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I have a small idea about an oil heater. However you would need to run piping from the coolant hose to the sump. From here it enters the sump and a typical coil of metal tubing would be used then returning back out of the sump and back up to rejoin the rest of the system. Down side is you would have to have an oil cooler(to keep the oil cool in normal running but this would mean that you would not need another heater as the heater Iv'e ordered would heat the coolant and oil to about 70deg C. Just a thought.

Or maybe something like this for heating the oil???
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-IMMERSION-HEATER-tea-TRAVEL-KETTLE-coffee-CUP-/160655062740?pt=UK_TravelTickets_Accessories_RL&hash=item2567c9b6d4#ht_1394wt_1270


Another though is how to keep the heat in the engine longer after you turn off??? I tend to train for 2-3hrs and then drive home. When i get to the car after training the car is almost cold(bottom of the gauge) when I start the engine for the return journey. Could you wrap your engine in a fibreglass blanket??? Whats the thoughts on this? Any ideas???

Chris.

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I read somewhere that oil doesn't really heat up in the same way water does, instead of heating the entire volume, only a small area of oil would get very (too) hot and the rest wouldn't heat sufficiently.

What you described kindof sounds like what modern cars have instead of oil coolers - they have oil/water heat exchangers. The coolant heat transfers to the oil when warming up so the oil warms up quicker, then when its running normally, the water keeps the oil cool. I imagine having one of these would make an engine pre-heater even more effective than it already is.

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piman wrote:
Hello John,
"Or, cheapest of all to fit, put a 100W bulb on an extension cable and leave it under the engine.  Completely safe and you can drive off without unplugging it!"
Come on John, that would be totally useless, 100watt, in heating terms,  might do a small goldfish tank.
Alec


Really?
Check this then: http://www.padheaters.co.uk/in_pan_oil_heater.html
50, 125, 250, 500 and 1000W heaters
Care to reconsider the "total uselessness" of a 100W bulb?
That is a Canadian company.  I think they know what 100W can do.

So, what can a hundred watts do?
A hundred watt bulb on for one second delivers 100 joules of energy.
Specific heat of water is 4.186 joules/ml, so that energy will raise the temp of 24mls of water by one degree.
So in one minute (60 seconds) it will do the same for 1440mls.
In 100 minutes it will raise that volume from zero to 100C, boil it in fact.
A Triumph six contains 6.2 litres of water, 4.3 times as much, so the bulb could boil that water in 430 minutes, or seven hours.
OK, all the energy won't be captured by the engine, and some of that energy is given out as light (a relatively small proportion in fact!) but a bulb IS an effective means of adding heat to a system.
Why be so negative, Alec?  

John

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34 wrote:
careful not to drive away connected to the mains.


I knew a guy who on a regular basis used to tow an arc welder down Duncrue st in Belfast
He would have done a welding job on a lorry then went for a test drive, same thing with hand lamps.

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piman wrote:
Hello Gaz,

"Any thoughts before i set about it or am i wasting my time"

I'd say yes, see my comment about the 100 watt light bulb and I bet your mirror heater is far less wattage than that, plus the silicone will act as an insulator.

Alec


Dunno what wattage the mirror element is but its about 6"x4" and gets nice and hot under 24v battery conditions.
Not looking at cooking the engine just warming the engine oil when its negative degrees outside.

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