Andymoltu Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 About to bite the bullet and change my leaky water pump.Never done one on a Stag before.Where would you get one from? (not sure if it is a 6 or 12 vane until I get it off). EJ Ward are a few miles up the road from me so that was the plan.A couple of questions about the procedure itself.Do you need to remove the carbs from the inlet manifold? Or can you remove the manifold with carbs still attached.Workshop manual suggests loosening the head bolts on one side when refitting the manifold. Sounds a recipe for a head gasket failure to me but would appreciate the advice of those who've done it before.Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sujitroy Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Removing the carbs from the manifold is one bolt so no harm in removing the carbs. Dont undo the head bolts. I had a tough time getting the manifold back on . It still leaks a little.I've heard of different thickness manifold gaskets available so check. Check the threads in the heads for soundness where the manifold attaches to. You may want to consider heli coils. Sujit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nibby Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Firstly do NOT loosen of the heads. No need to.I would repair your water pump rather than go for a new one as there were a batch of faulty new water pumps on the market. Check out LD Parts website, good info and can supply the parts you need, may be worth giving the helpful Peter at LD Parts a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 LD Parts gets my vote for parts.or you could fit a blanking plug and an EWP. You wont have to disturb the inlet manifold in future. Of course fitting an EWP leads to other work. (moving alternator, re-plumbing the heater, wiring in aDigital controller)On the plus side the EWP has other benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mole42 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Just phone Peter at LDParts and be guided by his knowledge and integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 LD parts supply a repair kit with a non standard Jaguar (I think?) seal that eliminates the issue of wear/corrosion on the seal face of the impellor which leads to seal failure and leakage. It does necessitate dismantling of the pump and you will need to find someone with a lathe to machine a small amount off the impellor (detailed instruction/dimensions included) but worth doing in my opinion. You could of course just strip and rebuild with a standard seal, then no machining required.I've been running a modified pump in my Stag now for several years with no issues.The main reason for overhaul vs replacement is that some years ago a faulty batch of remanufactured pumps were released into the market, these had poorly hardened drive gears which had a tendency to strip, damaging the jackshaft and releasing swarf etc. into the oilways. Occasionally one will turn up, but with no way to tell apart from a good one until it fails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StagNL Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 General rule of thumb to test hardness is to try scratching the surface witha craft knife or HSS drill bit.if it doesn't scratch the surface is harder than 55HRc. Generally hardened parts are harder than that. Julian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Quoted from mikeyb ... You could of course just strip and rebuild with a standard seal, then no machining required ... It is advised to always machine the mating face of the pump's impeller lightly, as this face is prone to corrosion. Especially when the car's not used on a regular base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martins Stag Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 BeansSo is it as simple and putting it in a lath and facing it off to get a smooth surface/ Do you have to be careful you don't take too much off?Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I would recommend fitting the ceramic "polo" as it gives a none-rusting and hopefully permanent smooth surface. Just needs a few mm taking off.In fact Martin, you have been involved with doing just that on my Toledo pump (slant engine fitted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StagNL Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 When I rebuilt my engine I found the pump and seals were OK but the sealing face on the impellor was corroded and pitted.I simply machined off a bit in a lathe until I had a fresh clean surface. I didn't take much material off, maybe 0.2-0.3mm. This I then treated to a wear resistant semi ceramic coating, about 0.08mm thick. Any loss in height is made up for via the spring.The rest of the impellor was also treated after being bead blasted. Did the work in 2003 and has been fine since.Julian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymoltu Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 Got the pump out this afternoon. Unfortunately the cage left behind (will borrow bearing puller to get it out) Does this mean the cage is had it.What holds the cage on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymoltu Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 Ignore previous message - came out undamaged with bush puller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Quoted from Martins Spitfire ... is it as simple and putting it in a lath and facing it off to get a smooth surface ... As Julian already stated it indeed is just a matter of skimming the corroded/pitted part of the mating face.Most time was spent getting the alignment of the impeller in the lathe correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymoltu Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 All back together with ceramic seal insert pump from Hart (LD out of stock) Ran it up to temp and there's coolant in the vee!Time for sealant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Is it leaking from the water pump spill in the block, or from the inlet gaskets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymoltu Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 Bit difficult to see under the manifold.A carton of Bars Leaks seems to have pretty much stopped it so I presume that it must have been from the manifold as I doubt sealant would do much for a pump leak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 I don't recall for certain whether the Stag is the same, but on my 1850 Dolomite I found the worst culprit for leaks around there was the O-rings on the little bypass pipe between the pump housing and the manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymoltu Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 Quoted from RobPearce I don't recall for certain whether the Stag is the same, but on my 1850 Dolomite I found the worst culprit for leaks around there was the O-rings on the little bypass pipe between the pump housing and the manifold. I hope there isn't an O ring or I have missed it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymoltu Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 Bars leaks has slowed it but still dripping.Can't be sure where it's coming from - pump or gasket.Any way of being sure?Looks like it's pump out again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Quoted from Andymoltu I hope there isn't an O ring or I have missed it! No, there isn't. I've checked the Stag workshop manual and the arrangement is completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymoltu Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Update - took it all apart as it seemed to be the water pump.Sent the pump back to Tony Hart who checked it over and replaced the top seal although he was unconvinced there was much amiss.Put it back together - this time just a bit of wet in the v but settled by the time I had done a 90 mile round trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymoltu Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 Never settled so out again. Tony Hart checked it over and pronounced pup fine. Reassembled, multiple helicoils and still leaking. Will run it for a while and see if settles. In danger of losing the plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I had a devil of a job getting the inlet manifold gaskets to seal. This could be your problem area rather than the pump. The two rear gaskets are the worst. Definitely not Triumphs best design... The root cause of my problem was that the inlet manifold faces were not "True". I realized this, when the manifold would rock in-situ before I fitted the bolts. I had the faces machined and used Well-Seal on the gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymoltu Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Haven't updated things for a while but as you might guess the pump still leaks. Hoped it had reduced with time but had a short week on the Isle of Wight and got through a gallon of coolant in just over 500 miles. Have a header tank so able to monitor the level and avoid overheating. But enough is enough. If it hadn't stopped leaking after 3000 miles it clearly wasn't going to. Decided to nip up to EJ Ward who are only a few miles from me and seek their advice. This was enlightening. We all know of the concerns regarding the repro pumps and their propensity to chew up the drive gear and ultimately the jackshaft, however what I wasn't aware is that the only seals that have been available for some time now are a pile of poo. Every one talks about the seal that benefits from the ceramic insert but the real problem is that the repro seal is the wrong shape. The originals were cylindrical and have to be carefully inserted with a fair amount of pressure. The current supplied one is conical so only really has a small contact area to make a seal. Apparently they are looking to get the original remade in India so that customers can rebuild their own original pumps but until that time it's a case of hope the kit seals, try a repro pump and hope it doesn't root your engine or fit an external water pump and blank off the block where the original fits. They don't fit the repro pumps as they don't want the risk of destroying an engine. Booked it in for early October for an external electrical pump to be fitted as I can't face taking the manifolds off for a 4th time and doing the job myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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