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RBRR 2021 - the feedback thread


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On 09/10/2021 at 15:13, Ben Hutchings said:

This has reminded me that there’s an RBRR video thread started by @Tim Bancroft and I think a YouTube playlist: https://www.clubtriumph.co.uk/forums/topic/86-round-britain-films-required/ 

Hopefully @Ellis and anyone else with 2021 vids can link them up there 👍

 

Ellis has obliged!   His video is on the RBRR21 thread

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As newcomers to the RBRR, we can only say that we thoroughly enjoyed the event - from start to finish. Even pre-start! excellent communication from the organisers - from phone calls to whatsapp. Plenty of information and we felt as though we were being treated as equals, even though it was our first run.

Didn't notice any particular cliques - everyone we spoke to were friendly and helpful - focussed, yes, but at no time did we ever feel out of place.

But, we too need to apologise for dazzling LEDs!  I did get the cars headlights adjusted - with two blokes sat in the car, but shortly before Carter Bar, the master switch fell apart and plunged us in to darkness.  Had to do some highly bodged wiring in pitch black while my co-driver helpfully munched his way through the M&Ms.  For some reason that I still can't fathom, it made our headlights a heck of a lot brighter than they should have been.  Did finally get it sorted in daylight when I could see what I was doing. So sincere apologies to anyone who was dazzled by our TR7.

Admittedly, I don't understand the ire directed at some of those who fell by the wayside, excepting those who failed to contact the organisers to say they couldn't be bothered to turn up. I can fix most things mechanical, but struggle with the electrical side (see above) so what may be a minor electrical fault to some is a major spanner throwing event for me.

My car is a daily driver and generally well maintained, but I didn't consider the effect on the car of a 2000 mile event - in one go. Everything having to work hard for a solid 48 hours.  I have done a trip of 2500 miles around France - in two weeks, but never in 48 hours.  I will make darned sure that I check the electrics as thoroughly as I check the mechanics for the next one.

Yes, we echo everyone elses comment with a huge 'Thank You' to the organisers, but also to everyone who took part and made the event so memorable.

Hopefully, we can do the next one too.

Chas and Jim, Team84 TR7V8

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11 hours ago, JohnD said:

Ellis has obliged!   His video is on the RBRR21 thread

Thanks for the feedback @JohnD, and the action @Ellis. I've moved the post to the existing video thread: https://www.clubtriumph.co.uk/forums/topic/86-round-britain-films-required/ . I think if the thread gets more activity, we might split it into years, but at the moment we'll probably just rename it and pin it so it's easier to find. 

 

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On 05/10/2021 at 14:20, Jason said:

The collect and keep process for roadbooks  is a bit haphazard at times 

For that very reason we decided not to collect and keep.  Our expectation was that each crew came to the marshall table with book in hand, open at the correct page, waited in turn for a signature then moved on.  It worked well and avoided a pile of closed roadbooks that would have inevitably been returned in a different order to deposited and would have required time consuming thumbing through prior to signature.  

Worked for us as marshalls, hopefully worked for all. 

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57 minutes ago, mikeyb said:

For that very reason we decided not to collect and keep.  Our expectation was that each crew came to the marshall table with book in hand, open at the correct page, waited in turn for a signature then moved on.  It worked well and avoided a pile of closed roadbooks that would have inevitably been returned in a different order to deposited and would have required time consuming thumbing through prior to signature.  

Worked for us as marshalls, hopefully worked for all. 

But did you have people arriving before the earliest due time hoping you would not notice and sign the books?

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So my views on a couple of the points raised

1. Drivers Meet Attendance

I don't think it would be right to make it mandatory attendance in person, this will not always be possible. This year it clashed with a major classic car event that lots of entrants were booked in for ( the Goodwood Revival), even the club secretary was at Goodwood! Also there is always the chance of a clash or for clashes with individuals personal calendar, eg weddings, funerals, bah mitzvahs etc. It's also unreasonable to expect foreign entrants or those from a large distance away to attend. However in this day and age it should not be beyond the technical capability to make the call available via zoom/skype/teams for remote attendance and also be recorded for those who have a clash. If it was recorded then confirmation that drivers have watched the recording or attended remotely via zoom/skype/teams if they were unable to attend is a good idea.

2. Mechanical Snowflakes

I think the entry form should state that each team should have a competent amateur mechanic amongst the team capable of basic repair and maintenance tasks, eg checking for a spark and diagnosing ignition faults, checking for fuel to the carbs/injectors, changing components such as, points, condenser, dizzy cap, fuel pump, water pump, water hoses, Alternator, checking and adjusting points, ignition timing, checking and topping up fluids, tyre pressures, even changing a wheel. Also advice of some you tube videos showing some of those tasks if a team needs to learn some basics before the run.

Edited by cook1e
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I have never attended a Drivers Meeting for any of the RBRRs that I have taken part in and not felt at any disadvantage as I made sure I was pretty clued up beforehand and also having a background in rallying certainly helped.

I'm now in my sixties and proud to be mechanical snowflake.  I've never been into fixing cars, I prefer driving them and organising events.  Our car, this year, had a fair bit of money thrown at it since the big ends forced us to make the decision to retire when we were close to home in 2018.

This year, we had confidence in our car as a result of this and when we could hear a grumbling u/j joint at the end of the propshaft at Badgers Holt, we took our time to ensure we finished, then hammered it 360 miles home without problem.

Preparation is everything.  Fail to prepare, prepare to fail is my mantra.

As for road books, the timing for Kinross is fairly tight, so I'd be surprised if there was a large queue of early arrivals.  Likewise, Gartcosh is at the end of the longest stretch between controls and I wouldn't expect a large queue of early arrivals there either as the event becomes stretched out.

We did, however, arrive at two controls about 45 minutes early and one at 25 minutes early.  Only one of them was organised in such a way that books were given out in the order of arrival.

Peter Fern said earlier that he liked to arrive early to reduce the stress and I am the same.

Being organised and keeping to your own planned time schedule to keep you near the front in case any disaster happens is a good way of tackling the RBRR rather than being stressed out trying to play catch-up for the entire event.

Every time we waited for ages to get our book back, we ended having to drive faster than we had planned to get back into our comfort zone.

However, this is a minor administrative problem that can be easily resolved such as when the crews were set off in the wrong order from the start in 2016.  It's small stuff really.

Out of the 4 RBRRs I've done, this was easily the best by a country mile.

On previous events, you signed in at the Finish Control and everyone drifted away.  There was no big finish where everyone got together and celebrated.

Not this year.  The beer flowed, the tales were told and sore heads were had by many.

The reduced mileage took some of the pressure off.  Crews were less tired at the finish as could be witnessed by the party long into the night at the Premier Inn.  Legend.  I can thoroughly recommend it.

The straightforward run to the finish was much better than cross country with tired brains.

The additional marshals at Wetherby were most welcome and allowed the crews to get in and out quickly and efficiently and keep the event flowing.

The RallyAppLive was better than I expected, when I remembered to turn it on.

All in all, after over 40 years playing with cars, this was probably the best and best organised event I have ever taken part in.

After the delay due to the pandemic, the fuel "crisis" (what crisis?) I congratulate the organising team for a superb event.

One final thing ....

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Jim. 

 

 

 

Edited by McJim
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Andy I would suggest just using the word "recommend having some one that is vaguely technical". I am not sure I would put myself in the category of competent amateur mechanic.... I'll  have a go, but how do you measure it too...  Don't forget changing a water pump on a Stag can be a whole can of worms too... I get you point though....

 

Martin M 

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1 hour ago, Martins Stag said:

Andy I would suggest just using the word "recommend having some one that is vaguely technical". I am not sure I would put myself in the category of competent amateur mechanic.... I'll  have a go, but how do you measure it too...  Don't forget changing a water pump on a Stag can be a whole can of worms too... I get you point though....

 

Martin M 

Good point. How about asking crew how long a temporary fix is expected to last. Don't let the crew enter unless the answer is along the lines of - long enough for me to forget about it until it breaks again, resulting in another temporary fix.

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And just who will this arbiter of mechanical knowledge be and how will he assess crews in Germany, France, the Netherlands or even Scotland?

Club Triumph is an inclusive club.

Anyone can enter any event without condition.

To put exclusions for not being a competent mechanic (and we've all come across them working in garages) is against the ethos of the Club.

Becoming elitist is not the way forward.

The RBRR, 10CR and C2C are not only events for all Club members, they are an adventure in motoring not a "look at all the spanners I've got" to justify an entry.

If you enter the RBRR and your car fails, well at least you've tried and, hopefully, had an enjoyable experience that will make you come back for more.

And remember, not every mechanical malady can be fixed at the side of the road, competent mechanic or not.

Jim.

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2 minutes ago, thescrapman said:

I know at least 2 retirements were for rear driveshaft failure on an IRS car. 

30 minute fix if you have a spare with you.

Yep, BTDT, even in a mud patch by the side of the road in rain.

Also - even if you don't have a spare you've got ways to ask other entrants, one of whom probably does.

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4 hours ago, thescrapman said:

It would be interesting to know how many of the causes of retirement could have been fixed at the roadside.

I know at least 2 retirements were for rear driveshaft failure on an IRS car. 

30 minute fix if you have a spare with you.

Even better to sort out the underlying issues beforehand so it doesnt fail.

I reckon driveshaft/UJ failures have got to be near the top of the list of failures over the years. And all completely avoidable.

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Has anyone done the analysis (or is it even possible) of Newbie failures vs those who have done it before?

I'm with McJim on this one.  I don't think its feasible to decide who is or is not mechanical. 

Small chassis rear ends bang, clank, grumble and whine a little bit a lot of the time. It may be prudent pre event to do a rear end rebuild prior to the event but that's no guarantee.  I wouldn't want to carry the spares needed (both sides in a spitfire, decent jack, stands) or attempt that at the roadside even though I've done a few and don't find it technically challenging. You'd get so far behind, the controls would close and all the joy of doing it with a group of other people would go. 

Simple fixes only (usually electrical) is about the best you can hope for before the event becomes no fun at all.

Educate, offer (not insist) a buddying service for newbies and those that have done it before, but I don't think there is much else you can do.  If you fail, make sure you've got recovery and don't expect people to spend hours giving you a hand if a quick fix isn't an option.

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, roger keys said:

I reckon driveshaft/UJ failures have got to be near the top of the list of failures over the years. And all completely avoidable.

My Vitesse failed in 2012 when the shaft snapped at the woodruff key in the hub and the wheel departed with the brake drum still attached,was that avoidable?.

S

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3 hours ago, Steve P said:

My Vitesse failed in 2012 when the shaft snapped at the woodruff key in the hub and the wheel departed with the brake drum still attached,was that avoidable?.

S

Why didn't you carry the back end of a car, complete with entire running gear? You'd only need to weld two bits of metal together to get you going again. 

 

If you don't know how to weld by connecting jumper cables to a lamp post, then you shouldn't be allowed to enter.

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My 2nd rbrr prev was 2016 in my own pi this as codriver in tr7

I enjoyed the blind date setup by volunteering as a last minute co driver. Francis was a great chap and serious rbrr veteran

Gartosch was fine and did what it needed to do, rally app didnt work at all tried to log in a knebworth and carter bar and said no each time, did it need to recognise my phone no. ???

Run back in and to haynes was great was some of this due to fuel crisis and slightly less people on m25?

Great banter afterwards in the cheap seats(beds)also at premier inn.(they ran out of breakfast items like novotel too)

 

It would be nice to see more ladies on the event , how this could be achieved ?  reduced entry cost  or quotas  but this may alienate other members but i throw it out as a thought.

great event, as 2nd i could switch off easier  when not driving and even missed most of wales bendy bits asleep.

Thank you

 julian

 

Edited by docwad
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Plenty to read and digest here.

I do not think we will be asking crews to prove their mechanical worth, not reasonable and a little unfair. We want to bring people into the Club and certainly don't want to encourage elitism. Back in 1966 I would imagine not many of the crews were mechanically versed, still maybe not as necessary as the cars should have been more reliable...........

Def agree that more women taking part would be better, however, this old car hobby is a very blokey thing, so whilst its a nice thought, I  cannot see the ratio changing. We did have two women crews taking part: Jess Cook/Steph Brake and Clare Pearson/Becky Whitehead. Experienced RBRR'er Katie Foreman withdrew on the eve.

RallyAppLive: We were delighted with it, this will feature again in 2023. Docwad, Francis' phone was the one registered, not yours. We hope that it will be able to be used in 23 when 'running in the background'.

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5 hours ago, Steve P said:

My Vitesse failed in 2012 when the shaft snapped at the woodruff key in the hub and the wheel departed with the brake drum still attached,was that avoidable?.

S

Ok, all was probably the wrong word. The vast majority is probably more accurate.

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My review of 2021 rbrr. 

Bloody brilliant.... as ever. 

Slightly more relaxed timings were good. People seemed less stressed. Falls of shinn, yes please next time. Gartcosh, sure. Gives some variety. Haynes... well its not pimperne but loved the cars by the cafe. Cliques. Not that I saw. Breakfasts. Both were fab. Driving standards.. mostly very good. LEDs.  I am another who must apologise. Same as others, boot full of spares and suddenly full beam is like something out of the blitz. Overall organisation was awesome. Thanks all. 

Tim

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On 11/10/2021 at 21:25, thescrapman said:

But did you have people arriving before the earliest due time hoping you would not notice and sign the books?

Very few to be fair.  At Kinross there were a couple of early arrivals who kindly stayed in the car park until just before time.  At both controls a handful of people walked in with 5-10 mins to go but happily went for a coffee or the loo in the meantime.  Through both controls from open to close there was no major bunching or inrush.  Everyone was spread fairly evenly throughout.

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RBRR newbie here. First and foremost, huge round of applause and standing ovation for the organisers. Brilliant organisation and finding fault would be churlish and picky. So here I go 🤪

We did have a breakdown but of something that has worked fine for the four years I have owned the car (& I have taken it to France several times, & long trips have not been an issue). I am not a mechanic so always have the car serviced and checked over by a specialist garage in the weeks prior and run the car frequently in the weeks before. Without a boot full of spares ‘just in case’ how can you predict what will fail if all is running well to start with?!?! Everyone has their own idea of what is essential.

The help volunteered by fellow participants was welcome, even though they couldn’t resolve the issue, but we actually got a fix by a local Good Samaritan in Scotland who had 3 fuel pumps on the garage shelf. We were a little unclear on the rights and wrongs of trying to rejoin and catch up, not least as we had to miss a couple of CPs to do so.  If there was a simple way to notify CPs as well as the organisers that would be great, appreciate that it is difficult for the organisers to keep CPs updated in real time, particularly at anti social hours.

My mechanical knowledge isn’t too bad, but when you don’t work on your car regularly, having the confidence to attack it, at night, at the side of the road is something else. That’s what RAC membership is for.

Anyway, I don’t think we held anyone up, and most driving witnessed seemed to be acceptable, although maybe a few saw dual carriageways (the A1 particularly) as an opportunity to show they could cruise at 80 plus with all the moderns.  

Final thought, whilst the normal use of classic cars is generally seen as a minimal contribution to global warming, we all did what is a typical annual mileage for most classics in just one weekend! I paid £35 to a Carbon Offsetting website myclimate.org who have a ethically checked series of offsetting schemes . Beware those run by oil companies, not be trusted apparently. The point being perhaps there should be suitable schemes for C2C, 10CR and RBRR in future before we get flak for not caring about the environment?  And if the media are to be believed this is more important to younger generations who we are trying to attract to classic car ownership.

Sorry that was longer than I had intended, but really a great RBRR and having thought I would only ever do one, I now am thinking about the next one!!

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