Sway bar drop links?

[Topic63]

Regarding a recent issue with the quality of Drop links, I’ve had replies from most of the suppliers and sadly all so far have said their parts come from Powertune in Turkey.

I discussed the issue with TD Fitchetts who are also supplied by the same company, sadly there appears to be no alternatives these days, it seems we are stuck with these sub-standard parts!?

Does anyone know of a different supplier that can offer a quality part?

In future I may consider the upgraded double ball joint version but at £52 a pair, it’s a little steep 🤷‍♂️

[Roger Keys]

18 hours ago, Topic63 said:

Regarding a recent issue with the quality of Drop links, I’ve had replies from most of the suppliers and sadly all so far have said their parts come from Powertune in Turkey.

I discussed the issue with TD Fitchetts who are also supplied by the same company, sadly there appears to be no alternatives these days, it seems we are stuck with these sub-standard parts!?

Does anyone know of a different supplier that can offer a quality part?

In future I may consider the upgraded double ball joint version but at £52 a pair, it’s a little steep 🤷‍♂️

Sadly, you have answered your own question. Cheap, sub standard parts get made because few people want to pay for decent quality parts.

And that appears to include you, as you then go on to say £52 is too much to pay for a pair of good ones.

Ask yourself if your expectation is resonable?

Out of that £52 is 20% tax. So that leaves £43.

From that, it needs to be produced, by someone, packaged, shipped to a distributor. Plus duty paid at import, likely to be 3-4%.  Then stored, and sold on, for a profit. Assuming there isnt an extra company in the chain (likely).

And there will be a minimum production of these, so someone needs to invest in what is a part for a niche car, which may take months or years to sell all of them. If indeed they ever all sell.

Rant over!

This is from someone who is currently pondering producing some classic car parts, in the full knowledge, that whilst i know they will be good, will not be the cheapest, and wondering how long it will take, if ever, to recoup my investment..............................................

Edited October 21, 2021 by roger keys

[Steve AKA vitessesteve]

Just ask yourself how much would suspension parts be for your modern car.  Still think £52 is expensive?

I had to replace a part of my Citroen exhaust recently.  Over £100 for what looked like a piece of almost straight steel tube.

[Topic63]

28 minutes ago, roger keys said:

Sadly, you have answered your own question. Cheap, sub standard parts get made because few people want to pay for decent quality parts.

And that appears to include you, as you then go on to say £52 is too much to pay for a pair of good ones.

Ask yourself if your expectation is resonable?

Out of that £52 is 20% tax. So that leaves £43.

From that, it needs to be produced, by someone, packaged, shipped to a distributor. Plus duty paid at import, likely to be 3-4%.  Then stored, and sold on, for a profit. Assuming there isnt an extra company in the chain (likely).

And there will be a minimum production of these, so someone needs to invest in what is a part for a niche car, which may take months or years to sell all of them. If indeed they ever all sell.

Rant over!

This is from someone who is currently pondering producing some classic car parts, in the full knowledge, that whilst i know they will be good, will not be the cheapest, and wondering how long it will take, if ever, to recoup my investment..............................................

Not arguing with your comments and I will undoubtedly have to invest in the upgraded versions at a later date, what we shouldn’t accept is a product that is of a questionable quality.

’Some’ do take advantage of the classic car market and do charge what I would call silly money, you can easily see this when you compare similar parts that are readily available for other marquees at a reasonable cost and question why they then attract a premium for classics?

I’ve come across this a few times (drop links being one such item) for example, a very similar if not virtually identical link for a BMW was retailing at £12 so you have to question why £52 for a Triumph - It’s not as if someone has had to reinvent the wheel, a difference in length and possibly imperial threads rather than metric, the machinery and initial investment has already been covered.

All of these parts have been around for many, many years and I accept that as cars get older and rarer the demand drops off, cost do increase for smaller production runs however, in the case of Powertune, they seem to be the only manufacturer of this certain item and sell it on to ALL the distributors we tend to now use, so their client base is huge.

Another pointer is the likes of Rimmers, they have bought out other smaller retailers so they can monopolies the market and do charge over the odds for spares that are (in some cases) sub-standard, this is a case of profiteering rather than looking after the marquee or it’s customers.

[Roger Keys]

1 hour ago, Topic63 said:

Not arguing with your comments and I will undoubtedly have to invest in the upgraded versions at a later date, what we shouldn’t accept is a product that is of a questionable quality.

’Some’ do take advantage of the classic car market and do charge what I would call silly money, you can easily see this when you compare similar parts that are readily available for other marquees at a reasonable cost and question why they then attract a premium for classics?

I’ve come across this a few times (drop links being one such item) for example, a very similar if not virtually identical link for a BMW was retailing at £12 so you have to question why £52 for a Triumph - It’s not as if someone has had to reinvent the wheel, a difference in length and possibly imperial threads rather than metric, the machinery and initial investment has already been covered.

All of these parts have been around for many, many years and I accept that as cars get older and rarer the demand drops off, cost do increase for smaller production runs however, in the case of Powertune, they seem to be the only manufacturer of this certain item and sell it on to ALL the distributors we tend to now use, so their client base is huge.

Another pointer is the likes of Rimmers, they have bought out other smaller retailers so they can monopolies the market and do charge over the odds for spares that are (in some cases) sub-standard, this is a case of profiteering rather than looking after the marquee or it’s customers.

Dont accept it then! Send it back. Nothing will change as long as customers keep buying poor quality parts. The market wants cheap, so thats what it gets.

Your BMW example is flawed. The volumes, by comparision will be huge. And at £12, could be just as poor as the parts you are complaining about. Poor quality parts isnt just a problem in classics. It is rife on newer car stuff too.

Your argument that it is only slightly different doesnt fly. It different. So thats a seperate production run with all that entails, for, say, 100 V 10,000 BMW ones. One presumes you dont run a production line? Making 10,000 is a rather more cost effective process than 100.

As i have found out, yes, there is often only one supplier for a given part. Thats because volumes are low. Ive been looking at a couple of parts. If i end up competeing with an existing supplier, that divides up the share of a limited market. I may never recover the investment, never mind make any money unless i win most of the sales. Sure, thats my problem/risk to decide, but where an existing supplier is making something, that rather dis-incentives one to take a risk. The market size is what it is. Adding an extra supplier doesnt change that.

Which brings me to the "huge" client base. Its actually irrelevant. The market size, as i just said, is what it is. Having an extra 10 outlets doesnt bring more sales. Just 10 different routes to market.

The lincolnshire company you mention, yes, they often are more expensive. Almost everything they sell is available for less elsewhere, should you choose to do so. Im not sure why they should look after the marque? Their purpose in life is to make money. And its your choice to use them.

 

As i said in my first post, your expectation is unrealistic. You want high quality and low cost, on a niche product. Choose 2, but you cant have all 3.

 

 

 

[DVD3500]

My son was excited about going to a climbing park but came home saying the class can't go because not everyone can afford the 23€.

Now I know that 23€ can indeed be an issue for some families particularly as one in ten families has lost at least one source of income in this area and honestly, if this had been known to be an issue there are organizations to help out such kids.

Having been a child who was eligible to get free food at school and wearing only hand-me-down clothes for years I know of the stigma of poverty.

But at the same time I also see that a lot of those families have members who smoke (8-9€ a packet here in Germany), have tattoos (start at 150€ because of the health insurance requirements) and I often see them with an energy drink waiting to pick up or having just dropped off the kids.

The point is here that what something is "worth" is all down to decisions made.

When it comes to our cars, yes, they are a hobby and yes it is getting more expensive but as someone else said cars in general are getting more expensive.

What if you stopped paying for cable TV for a few months?

Maybe change your mobile plan?

Cut down on things like alcohol and tobacco?

I was self-employed for 3 years and my "treat" was getting a take out Döner kebab once a month. I often went days without a warm meal...

Also, most of these parts are not consumables. Heck, high-quality parts may even outlast the rest of the car (or the life of the owner....?)

You can only vote with your wallet and it is high time we start...

[Ben Hutchings]

I reckon @Topic63 is wishing he'd never said a word about drop links 😂 

[Topic63]

2 hours ago, Ben Hutchings said:

I reckon @Topic63 is wishing he'd never said a word about drop links 😂 

It’s good to have a debate......everyone has an opinion, it’s good to bash it out 😂🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[PeteStupps]

Seems to be a safe assumption that any new rubber items will be useless these days.

We all know the huge frustration of poor quality parts, and it's useful to share the knowledge. @Topic63 going to the effort to call up a few suppliers and ask if they're all the same is commendable, he's saved me accidentally buying another duff set of those Powertune drop links from another source.

For this particular example the investment for a good alternative (the Wolfitt rosejoint type) isn't huge, and shouldn't need replacing for a long long time. But if you're doing the rest of the suspension at the same time it all adds up, so those cheaper options become tempting.

On balance we're pretty lucky to have a range of modestly priced options for a lot of the small chassis parts. Getting hold of stuff for the 1300fwd is a bit more challenging on average. And a bloke I know paid £250 for a set of HT leads for his Ferrari!

[Jason]

You pays yer money, you takes yer choice, buy cheap buy twice <insert apt phrase here>

The only way we will get better quality is if we pay for it, if we just suck up the crappy stuff and say nothing then the vendors will keep selling crap and ordering the same replacement crap thinking "well, it's crap but it sells". As so often is the case, we end up here, there is dwindling or no choice, it's the crap or nothing.

What's a pair of drop links worth? I paid £45 for some 'modern' Saab ones recently so £52 doesn't seem to bad. If only we could get to the manufacturers and get them to make stuff that fits, works and lasts - support Roger 🙂 

[PeteStupps]

Sorry if i've missed it elsewhere but what is it you're looking into @roger keys? Or is it still too early to share?!

[Roger Keys]

22 minutes ago, PeteStupps said:

Sorry if i've missed it elsewhere but what is it you're looking into @roger keys? Or is it still too early to share?!

Cant be specific, but we do springs, shocks, discs and pads. Always keeping an eye out for opportunities 🙂

Relatively short run production is something we can do, which the big boys just are not interested in.

Having run the numbers on a couple of triumph related products, i know i cannot compete on price. Yes, if we did it, ours would work correctly, but if no one buys it, its rather pointless. If 9 out of 10 customers still buy the underperfoming cheap one, im going to hemmorage cash. 

[thescrapman]

Word needs to be spread far and wide about what products are rubbish, but no publication or club will do that for fear of unwelcome feedback from their advertisers.

But unless that happens, nothing will change.

The TRR spares thing may be the way to go. 

Or a list of "best" options against part numbers, maintained by a chosen group of people so it can not be influenced. 

Peer reviewed parts like medical stuff.

[Tim Bancroft]

These ARB drop links, for what car?

If Spit/GT6/Herald/Vitesse, I'd fit a set of John Wofle's units.

http://www.wolfitt.com/

£60 plus the usuals, but they actually work!

[MarkB]

I fitted John Wolfe's ARB drop links to my Vitesse, nicely made items.  Not found an ARB yet without some amount of twist in it.  I think there was some debate wether they were originally made with a degree of twist, either way, with the Ajustable drop links you can adjust any preload. 

[JohnD]

I do not want to 'knock' Jon's product in any way!   But an investment in a left handed tap to supplement your right hand tools will let you make your own from some tube and a pair of left and right hand threaded spherical joints.   Add a large nut, welded to the outside of the tube, and the DiY result is most satisfying, as well as bespoke!   

No pic, I'm on my phone, but will supply if anyone wants one.

John

Edited October 24, 2021 by JohnD

[ferny]

This was what I bought when I did my own in April 2019.

 

 

[Topic63]

43 minutes ago, ferny said:

This was what I bought when I did my own in April 2019.

 

 

Just had a look at your list of parts from McGill’s - Cracking reply 👍

I’ll be getting these on order.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Topic63