Antonnick Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 I have decided to redo the front seats on my Triumph Herald 13/60 of 1970 vintage. The existing vinyl covers display the pattern of an earlier model but I have assumed that the basic frame design is the same. It could be that someone previously recovered the seats with old covers, who knows? Anyway on striping all the old foam etc off I found this. ( pls see attachment) The squab has an inbuilt metal spring arrangement. It is in quite good condition actually. Is this how how earlier models were made or have I got a hybrid? The refurbishment kit comes with its own foam infill but should I cut the spring mattress out and use the modern foam or leave it as it is? What advice can someone give? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 I may be wrong, but shouldn't the base have had springs too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkB Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Think the base has a rubber diaphragm hooked to the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 If you take out the springs what will you put in its place? I think for the refurb kit to fit youll also need the clips with rubber straps used on later models squabs which Rimmers and Canley supply but youd have to check its suitable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbif Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 My 13/60 of 1968 vintage had the rubbery elastic straps not springs. I don't know if they are the original seats. I replaced the straps with some lengths of strong elastic from my wife's bit box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonnick Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 Yes, I removed the rubber Diaphragm from the seat area. It did not look too old. Also the refurb kit includes the straps for the squab so I could completely remove the springs and use them. Whether that is better or not?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbif Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 The parts diagram below is for the 13/60 which shows the seats being the elastic strap type, maybe your's are from a different model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 59 minutes ago, Antonnick said: Yes, I removed the rubber Diaphragm from the seat area. It did not look too old. Also the refurb kit includes the straps for the squab so I could completely remove the springs and use them. Whether that is better or not?? I would use the complete kit as supplied IF the new squab straps fit ok to your frame. Dont think the new foam will work with the springs in place so you would have to get a thinner piece to go over them and then the cover might not fit as intended... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonnick Posted December 4, 2021 Author Share Posted December 4, 2021 Yes Rosbif and thankyou for the diagramme - I see the seat frame is exactly the same as mine but the vinyl covers had the earlier pattern and the spring mattress on the squab. What I am going to do is to attempt to fit the squab over the springs and see what it feels like. I can always later cut the springs away ( they are welded to the frame) and fit the straps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Was there foam between the mattress and cover originally? I would expected that so will you re-use it because as I say the new foam will be much too thick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonnick Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 To tidy up the thread. I had to cut the spring "cushion" away from the squab frame - it would not let itself be pulled out. Thence I installed the and glued the new foam cushion to the frame before wrapping it with thin plastic food wrapping and then pulling the new vinyl squab over it. The straps had to have new holes drilled into the frame but that was quite easy. The new foam cushion with its wings would have been far too bulky with the spring "cushion" also in place to be able to fit the vinyl squab cover. @ Glang - yes there was a foam stuff over the spring but I have discarded it. It was ok but I wanted eveything new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonnick Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 I have come back to this topic. Has anyone had problems with the rubber diaphragm? i have installed it in both seats and even before anyone has sat on it, the rubber has split at the sides. I was wondering whether the seats are wider than they should be as standard? No, that cannot be - all the foam covers fit. Actually on my old Morris Minor, had the same problem with the rubber splitting but that was after they were in use. I installed some of the spare straps from the squab as support but it is of course a bodge. I have complained to the supplier but that is not going to help much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin R Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I remember seeing recently by chance this being discussed and a solution to this problem on the Morris Minor Owners club forum which as you say also have a diaphragm base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I wonder if this is another example of the poor quality of replacement rubber components. Its come up time after time and although many spares dont match the original specifications anything with rubber in it (engine/gearbox mounts, wheel arch to bulkhead seal strips, gaiters...) seems to be really bad. Presumably for the manufacturers its perfect as they can use a cheaper rubber which looks good and and does the job but fails very quickly! My seat diaphragms are 1967 originals and thankfully still going strong👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin R Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Completely agree - cheap rubber is what the manufacturers use with disastrous results further down the line for the unwary. My daughter had a 10 y old Citroen C1 a few years ago that began to take in large amounts of water. A look on the internet revealed it is a common problem that the rubber fails around all of the light clusters. It was a week long carpets out £250 job to put right for the sake of 20 quids worth of decent rubber. The main dealer did an excellent job putting it right and is still good today - it seems they had plenty of practice. Even worse is that this car is a collaboration between Citroen/Peugot and Toyota. Left unrectified the car would have been scrap 10 years earlier than was necessary. I was on holiday in Jersey a few months later and visited one of the many WW2 German Bunkers built during the Occupation. They have various internal compartments separated by Gas-tight doors with - guess what ? - rubber seals that were as pristine and pliable as the day they were fitted nearly 80 years ago despite constant use in coastal conditions. Looks like proven technology from decades ago was even available during a supply crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Is not the problem that lots of the chemicals and processes needed to make decent rubber products are now banned, so we now have what seems to be good quality rubber products now are something else that just looks like rubber, andvcost a lot more, and we have products made without the banned chemicals that are rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, thescrapman said: Is not the problem that lots of the chemicals and processes needed to make decent rubber products are now banned No, it's not. We're still quite capable of manufacturing good quality rubber parts for new cars, patio doors, chemical process jars... anything that needs it and is willing to pay enough / buy in sufficient bulk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, RobPearce said: No, it's not. We're still quite capable of manufacturing good quality rubber parts for new cars, patio doors, chemical process jars... anything that needs it and is willing to pay enough / buy in sufficient bulk Absolutely. Buy aftermarket rubber moulded hoses for a car, they fall apart. Yet those fitted to new cars are lasting almost indefinately. Likewise OEM engine mounts, they last forever, yet a cheap aftermarket fails within a few years. It is all about quality/cost. So for "our "cars, buying silicon bespoke hoses makes sense (I presume it is cheaper to make them than small run in quality rubber) As to a mention of light seals on the toyota/citroen/pugs it could be somebody cut corners and saved money, a bad batch or whatever. Manufacturers do make cock-ups. (BMW timing chains, ford ecoboost engines/cooling system etc etc) and I bet most of those are down to bean counters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 38 minutes ago, Clive said: I bet most of those are down to bean counters. A colleague of mine (electronics engineer) was in a meeting once with a supplier and somebody from our purchasing department. The supplier was pushing a particular transistor to replace what we used in the ignition coil driver. The bean counter asked my colleague "how much would that save us?" "That's irrelevant," my colleague said, "because it wouldn't work." "But how much would it save?" asked the bean counter. "It wouldn't, we can't use it, it won't work," said the engineer. "Don't be so obstructive," said the bean counter. "How much could we save?" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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