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F1 title fiasco.


Colin Caygill

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Well. The F. I. A. have really messed up here. I can't see how they can refute the Mercedes protest. The rules were clearly not adhered to, maybe for good intentions, but races have been concluded behind the safety car on many occasions in the past, and should've been here. But to deliberately get Max up to (and indeed nose in front!) of Lewis knowing he's on new softs and Lewis's tyres were 40 odd laps old is to cynically engineer the Red Bull victory. I can't see a way out for the F. I. A. They can't surely disqualify Max. He did nothing wrong, apart from show his nose to Lewis at the restart, which is naughty but not a hanging offence. It's all Masi's doing. 

Did he regret not being more strict on the time advantage Lewis got on the first lap and tried to level things up? 

What a mess. 

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Utter shambles, the last 3 or 4 races have suffered from very poor interpretations of the rules by the stewards and the "FIA officials". With (IMHO) ridiculous decisions favouring Hamilton and Verstappen at different times, but worse leaving nobody clear on how the rules will be applied.

After the accident today they might as well have stopped the race and awarded Verstappen the win. Let the lapped cars unlap OR don't.... you can't do both/neither and then immediately restart. 

As you say, no way out for them. Considering not watching next season and cancelling our subscription.

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48 minutes ago, yorkshire_spam said:

Utter shambles, the last 3 or 4 races have suffered from very poor interpretations of the rules by the stewards and the "FIA officials". With (IMHO) ridiculous decisions favouring Hamilton and Verstappen at different times, but worse leaving nobody clear on how the rules will be applied.

After the accident today they might as well have stopped the race and awarded Verstappen the win. Let the lapped cars unlap OR don't.... you can't do both/neither and then immediately restart. 

As you say, no way out for them. Considering not watching next season and cancelling our subscription.

Well, they've rejected the complaints, I suppose on the grounds that today's news is tomorrows fish n chip wrapper. Its very disappointing. 

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14 minutes ago, Colin Caygill said:

Well, they've rejected the complaints, I suppose on the grounds that today's news is tomorrows fish n chip wrapper. Its very disappointing. 

I don't think they had any choice, admitting that they were wrong would have opened a can of worms with no solution (but would have been the moral/right thing to do). FIA continue to demonstrate the sort of comfort with corruption they showed when they made a private deal with Ferrari to hush up their engine cheating a couple of seasons ago. In my eyes, no credibility or authority any more.

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To be fair, it actually made the race exciting. And I usually put F1 on when I want to have a sunday afternoon nap. 

But it is a shame when races are decided on arbitary decisions by the race officials. And it seems the season has had plenty of twists and turns, mostly off the track. 

Who knows how this will affect F1 next season, probably more viewers hoping to see more action?

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2 hours ago, Hogie said:

This seems to be the season for lies and cheating.

I'm finished with motor sport.

Roger

Come now... there are a lot of series out there that are more interesting than Formula One. BTCC, pretty much any TCR series to name a few.  Most forms of GT racing as well as WEC (except the current "Hypercar" class) are usually good.

Formula E races are usually exciting and the champion has not been decided until the last or before last race for years... For me sound is just a form of wasted energy so I don't mind it at all.

 

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3 hours ago, Clive said:

To be fair, it actually made the race exciting. And I usually put F1 on when I want to have a sunday afternoon nap. 

But it is a shame when races are decided on arbitary decisions by the race officials. And it seems the season has had plenty of twists and turns, mostly off the track. 

Who knows how this will affect F1 next season, probably more viewers hoping to see more action?

It did indeed make it more exciting and I suppose Lewis also had the option of pitting for fresh tyres, although he would have lost track position....but that’s racing?

The decision of the race director was controversial to say the least and little surprise that he hid himself away after the race?

No matter how they cut this, I think Lewis was robbed of a comfortable win but the racing Gods did indeed come to Red Bulls rescue and well done to Max even though it may be a bitter win 👏🥇🏆🏆🏆

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2 hours ago, Beans said:

Anyway it was an exciting season and the best driver got the title he deserved!
And the best car got the constructors award.
Though Mercedes' pit strategy actually lost them the driver's championship yesterday. 

I think you are probably right. 

Overall the Mercedes was the better car, and Verstappen was the better driver, helped by the best strategy in the final race.

I wonder if Hamilton (and Mercedes) took their eye off the ball a bit, and got caught napping.

When the challenger starts to show his form, he just ups his game a little and blows them away, this year he just could not shake Max off. It was noted by Max that they were both drained at the end of some of the races, Lewis has not had to work that hard in years.

Also don't forget how Lewis stole it from Massa on last lap at Brazil, good strategy and a bit of luck.

 

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It didn't make it more exciting in the slightest.

 

In full view of a much larger and fresh set of viewers they let a car with brand new tyres sit side-by-side with one with worn out tyres. Where is the excitement in everyone knowing the result has been manipulated before the safety car leaves track? It's backfired massively. 

 

Sadly, the race director ultimately has final say in everything so any appeal can technically be thrown out.

 

I'm almost done with F1 as a result.

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9 hours ago, mpbarrett said:

interesting is this for the new hybrid cars... 
WRC very exciting better than F1!

It is - one of three hybrid applications I've been working on recently, the other two being BTCC and the track-day version of an Aston Martin. For WRC, we're doing the engine control for the Ford Fiesta (who we've been working with for years, including when they won the championship).

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Well, that's refreshing!   I made a similar argument in Another Place (that Merc made the wrong tactical decision, maybe influenced by Hamilton's undoubted skill in making tyres last longer than anyone else) and got flamed for it!  

No matter!  Happy Christmas!

John

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Hi John,

you got 'flamed' (not sure what that is) because you were wrong.

Had Hamilton gone in for new tyres before before Max he would have been behind   a good number of cars.

And at that point the race was full on.

Max went in the moment the crash happened.

So Hamilton was Stymied. Merc did not get it wrong BUT events

over took them based on the mysterious rulings by an idiot. 

No matter how you dress your argument Hamilton was on a winner. The only way that Max could win was to create new rules which the Race Director did after an apparent intervention by RedBull.

Roger

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48 minutes ago, ferny said:

However, Mercedes poor strategy allowed that to happen. Strategy and planning during a race has been their weakest area for years. Red Bull have consistently been one of the best.

But how can you plan your strategy when the race director changes the rules during the race?

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1 hour ago, ferny said:

The win was forced by the race director.

 

However, Mercedes poor strategy allowed that to happen. Strategy and planning during a race has been their weakest area for years. Red Bull have consistently been one of the best.

That is a tad unfair. The chances of a crash of some description was pretty low at that point. But it happened. But even then the ONLY chance for red bull was if teh lapped cars between the 2 contenders were allowed to pass. If all the lapped cars were to do so, the race would have finished under a safety car. It does smack of a decision to allow a change of race leader. 

In fact I am surprised that the 3rd car (whoever that was) has not appealed as he may have had a chance at Max? May not of worked out, but only Max was given a chance.

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They had time earlier in the rece between discussing the tyres needing replacing if there was a safety car and the safety car.

 

If they pitted before that then they would have still been in front with better boots than they had, but still not as good as Verstappen. Hamilton could have coped.

 

Mercedes planted the bulb, the race director watered and nurtured it before pruning the tulip and putting it on display.

 

Mercedes always lean to a cautious strategy thanks to having Hamilton who is capable of making up for it. It's caught them out before. In this case though, it was Masi who caught them out and not a rival team.

 

I'm not saying it's not right or correct. The result was ultimately decided by one person sitting in a comfortable chair in an office. What I'm pointing out is that Mercedes haven't learnt from the past and when Hamilton goes or one or more rivals improve by just a small amount, they're going to struggle.

Edited by ferny
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Hands up to Lewis for suggesting that Toto drop the potential appeal & court case, he wouldn’t want to win on the back of a court case decision.

Race directors made a bad decision, even worse is the fact they then try and support the decision with other additional rules in their vast directory of rules.

The FIA need to seriously look into these rules, laws and guidelines, had to laugh when I read they were considering penalising Lewis for not showing up at the gala in Paris.....Joking right??? 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Edited by Topic63
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13 hours ago, Topic63 said:

had to laugh when I read they were considering penalising Lewis for not showing up at the gala in Paris.....Joking right???

I'm afraid all this BS leaves me wondering if they are incompetent or they are actually penalising him for something else? Maybe for his activism around BLM? Or maybe his concerns about human rights in the middle east? Or maybe it's as simple as the colour of his skin? 

Massi's decision stinks to high heaven - the point at which the safety car was deployed ruled out Hamilton pitting due to his position on track at the time (but that's not going to have been intentional). If he'd then followed the rules one way or another... All lapped car unlap themselves - race finishes under safety car. NO lapped cars unlap themselves - Max has to pass 4 cars to win - he has a chance, but likely a Hamilton win. Massi makes up a new rule to allow only the cars between Max and Lewis passed, but not the ones between Max and Sainz or anywhere else..... guaranteed Max win. 

If something like that happened and the rules were clear and followed - I'd have been disappointed with the result, but accept that the racing gods had spoken/taken a hand - it happens. But the "made for TV" "guaranteed Max win" bollocks that they contrived - it's not a sport, it's entertainment, you might as well watch American wrestling. 

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