Brockie Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Hi Guys, I have a spitfire4 Mk2 1147cc in which the previous owner installed a Ford Sierra Type 9 5 speed gearbox, which I understand was/is a popular conversion. My problem is that the clutch has now gone so does anyone know if I can simply buy a standard mk2 Spit clutch or is there something else I need to buy. The Canley website, as attached, indicates I have to do something else but they have nothing available to buy. Any help greatly appreciated :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 45 minutes ago, Brockie said: The Canley website, as attached, indicates I have to do something else No, it indicates that the person doing the conversion had to decide between two routes - one very expensive and problematic, the other simple but needing some effort in the conversion. So what you need to do is find out what flywheel you have fitted. Take the gearbox out, photograph the clutch/flywheel and post the picture here. Somebody will answer that question very quickly. The 1500 flywheel has a ridge for the clutch cover fixings, the 1147 (and 1300) are flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brockie Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 Thanks for the quick reply Rob. When I get I manage to get the gearbox out I'll do as you say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisA Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 I am doing this conversion now on my 1980 Spitfire. I had to transfer and drill 2 holes in bell housing, cut the snout off the transmission input shaft. The pilot bearing needs to be replaced and the clutch plate has a different input shaft with a larger spline. I am about to mate to the engine as soon as new motor mounts and slave rebuild kit arrives. I’m just changing the front seal on the slave fo to the after market one has a larger front seal that does not pass through the mount. I have not yet tried to install for the frame modifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brockie Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 On 21/03/2022 at 13:20, RobPearce said: No, it indicates that the person doing the conversion had to decide between two routes - one very expensive and problematic, the other simple but needing some effort in the conversion. So what you need to do is find out what flywheel you have fitted. Take the gearbox out, photograph the clutch/flywheel and post the picture here. Somebody will answer that question very quickly. The 1500 flywheel has a ridge for the clutch cover fixings, the 1147 (and 1300) are flat. Well it has been a long time coming but I finally managed to get the gearbox out and remove the clutch. It appears to be a 23spline version with a 6.5"pressure plate. Photographs attached. If anybody could advise where I can buy the respective parts Or which parts I need to be looking for it would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 That looks like it is the "custom supplied" clutch plate. No idea who sells them, but Frontline were the people supplying kits, so may be able to help. The better idea may well be to use the larger clutch/1500 flywheel. Proably the cheaper option too. Besides, the plate you have looks as if it has lost springs? But appears to have plenty of friction material. And the cover has odd wear marks on the fingers, as if the bearing has been rubbing halfway down them. Wear is usually at the tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Yes I wonder if that clutch could even go again if the operation of the thrust bearing could be corrected? Alright as Clive says the friction plate has only got 4 out of 6 torque springs but I think it must have been custom made like that and maybe isnt a problem - it would certainly save a lot of expense and/or work if reusable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brockie Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Clive said: That looks like it is the "custom supplied" clutch plate. No idea who sells them, but Frontline were the people supplying kits, so may be able to help. The better idea may well be to use the larger clutch/1500 flywheel. Proably the cheaper option too. Besides, the plate you have looks as if it has lost springs? But appears to have plenty of friction material. And the cover has odd wear marks on the fingers, as if the bearing has been rubbing halfway down them. Wear is usually at the tips. I think the 1500 flywheel uses 7/16 bolts to bolt to the crankshaft but my original uses 3/8 so would this mean the holes in the 1500 would be too big and hence would be problematic to centralise? Edited August 1, 2023 by Brockie typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brockie Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 20 minutes ago, glang said: Yes I wonder if that clutch could even go again if the operation of the thrust bearing could be corrected? Alright as Clive says the friction plate has only got 4 out of 6 torque springs but I think it must have been custom made like that and maybe isnt a problem - it would certainly save a lot of expense and/or work if reusable.... It definitely wasn't made like that as I retreived a load of broken bits of spring when I removed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Ah yes that makes a difference! Even so clutch plates can be rebuilt and with a custom item like yours that might be worth doing... However can you put up a picture of the thrust bearing because something is wrong and it might explain why the springs failed so early in the life of the plate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 I would think a call to Frontline would be a good idea. You cannot be the first person with this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Brockie said: I think the 1500 flywheel uses 7/16 bolts to bolt to the crankshaft but my original uses 3/8 so would this mean the holes in the 1500 would be too big and hence would be problematic to centralise? From tbe Canley blurb, you can buy collars to take up the gap. If you want a 1500 flywheel, I have a freebie in Brighton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Brockie said: I think the 1500 flywheel uses 7/16 bolts to bolt to the crankshaft but my original uses 3/8 so would this mean the holes in the 1500 would be too big and hence would be problematic to centralise? Yes. True. This is why the Canley text copied further up this thread mentions flywheel bolt adapters - just four little collars to increase bolt ID at the critical point - to get around this. The actual location/centralisation is done by a dowel and the lip on the back of the flywheel so this is less flakey than it sounds. Torque is transmitted by the clamping friction, not the bolts….. I remember creating some adapters to match a 1500 flywheel to my Herald 1200 engine out of a piece of random steel pipe that happened to have the right diameters. I still have my feet…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 If the 23 splines are same as 1500 dolomite splines, there is a 23-spline small plate fitted to a Triumoh, possibly later Toledo or 1300 Dolomite. I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brockie Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Yes. True. This is why the Canley text copied further up this thread mentions flywheel bolt adapters - just four little collars to increase bolt ID at the critical point - to get around this. The actual location/centralisation is done by a dowel and the lip on the back of the flywheel so this is less flakey than it sounds. Torque is transmitted by the clamping friction, not the bolts….. I remember creating some adapters to match a 1500 flywheel to my Herald 1200 engine out of a piece of random steel pipe that happened to have the right diameters. I still have my feet…. I've checked the Canley parts list and the drive plate is N/A so not sure where I get the correct one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brockie Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 19 minutes ago, thescrapman said: If the 23 splines are same as 1500 dolomite splines, there is a 23-spline small plate fitted to a Triumoh, possibly later Toledo or 1300 Dolomite. I think. You're saying I may probably need to buy a 'plate'? To fit where exactly, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 The Triumph single rail gearbox has 20 splines so as Canleys say in the article above the Ford Sierra 1600 friction plate is needed to match the 23 splines of the type 9 box but clamped using a Spitfire 1500 flywheel and matching clutch cover. You'll have to get this friction plate from a Ford stockist as Canleys will no longer keep it as demand for this mod will now be very low.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 54 minutes ago, thescrapman said: If the 23 splines are same as 1500 dolomite splines, there is a 23-spline small plate fitted to a Triumoh, possibly later Toledo or 1300 Dolomite. I think. No, but it is the same as TR7 5 speed and dolomite 1850, so that plate gets used when converting 2L cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Wade Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 The parts needed are: Second hand Spitfire/ MG Midget 1500 flywheel. Flywheel bolt spacers, Paddocks have them in stock & are half the price of Canleys. https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/flywheel-spacer-bush-2 Spitfire 1500 clutch kit (you only need the pressure plate & release bearing from the kit). https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/clutch-assembly-1500-2 1600 Sierra clutch friction plate. https://m.buycarparts.co.uk/aisin/299946 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brockie Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 17 hours ago, Clive said: From tbe Canley blurb, you can buy collars to take up the gap. If you want a 1500 flywheel, I have a freebie in Brighton. Yes please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brockie Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Amy Wade said: The parts needed are: Second hand Spitfire/ MG Midget 1500 flywheel. Flywheel bolt spacers, Paddocks have them in stock & are half the price of Canleys. https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/flywheel-spacer-bush-2 Spitfire 1500 clutch kit (you only need the pressure plate & release bearing from the kit). https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/clutch-assembly-1500-2 1600 Sierra clutch friction plate. https://m.buycarparts.co.uk/aisin/299946 Many thanks Amy, however that clutch plate only has 20 teeth whereas the Type 9 has 23 teeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 This one for a mk2 1600 Sierra has 23 but the diameter is bigger so you would have check with Canley... 300 230 TOPRAN 300230001 Clutch Disc 215mm, Teeth Quant.: 23 300230001 ❱❱❱ price and experience (buycarparts.co.uk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Wade Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Brockie said: Many thanks Amy, however that clutch plate only has 20 teeth whereas the Type 9 has 23 teeth I think you might need to post on a Ford forum, I'm sure you'll find someone who knows the part number you need for the friction plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 This looks hopeful. 7 1/4" is 185mm, this one is 190. https://www.burtonpower.com/std-clutch-plate-ford-x-flow-ohv-kent-190mm-1-x23-c784af.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Does look hopeful but I wonder how long it takes to get hold of☹️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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