Bled brakes but still very soft

[1967 MkIII]

After refitting the brake lines and hoses I used the Eezibleed. At 10 psi I avoided the shower I got last time but having gone round each wheel three times the brake pedal still feels very soft.

I went round in the order furthest from master cylinder to closest. I opened the bleed screws very slightly, just enough to get a flow through the pipe. The first time i had lots of air, the second time very little , the third time none at all. None of the parts I just fitted on are leaking.

The car is on axle stands at the rear so its slightly higher than the front, however surely this shouldn't make a difference?

The strange part is that it took little fluid, certainly no more than 250 ml and I filled half a jam jar with the outflow (which was cloudy).

Any ideas please?

[roddymacp]

Just done my clutch using the Eezibleed and put half a litre through that short run before I was cleaar of air. Half of that in the brakes doesn't seem a lot, but I stand to be corrected.

[lancepar]

Don't know if this makes any difference as I havn't tried it my self, but I have heard bleeding the rear brakes with the shoe adjusters tighened fully helps. Might be worth a try.

8)

[Deleted User]

I use a foot to bleed my brakes. 5.1 brake fluid, decent pads and shoes hard as a rock pedal.

The brakes were great on the Stelvio this year. Wow I want to go back,

Rob

[1967 MkIII]

1704 wrote:

Don't know if this makes any difference as I havn't tried it my self, but I have heard bleeding the rear brakes with the shoe adjusters tighened fully helps. Might be worth a try.

8)

Hmm the adjusters are all the way slack as I just put the drum back on. Got new shoes & slave cylinder too, don't know if these make any difference to the feel.

[gfiandy]

If the fluid is cloudy there is something wrongbwith it. It could have micro bubbles in it whic could appear cloudy, or it could be contaminated, possibly with water this would make the pedal soft.

Brake fluid is cheap compared to crashing, I would flush the whole lot out.

Regards,
Andy

[junkuser]

"I opened the bleed screws very slightly, just enough to get a flow through the pipe."
      Opening the bleed nipple widely will more likely to give sufficient flow to push along any bubbles lurking in high spots in the system.

[herald948]

2057 wrote:

Hmm the adjusters are all the way slack as I just put the drum back on. Got new shoes & slave cylinder too, don't know if these make any difference to the feel.

If I'm understanding correctly, I think what you need to do is get those rear brakes adjusted properly: use either the pedal or the handbrake lever to get the shoes (and cylinders) centralized, adjust, possibly repeat. And you might need to do it again sooner rather than later, as the shoes bed in.

[Dannyb]

I use the easy bleed first but then have to go round each wheel starting at the furthest away from the master and bleed with the foot to get all the ait out and a rock hard pedal. Let the new brake fluid stand overnight and don't shake or you will introduce more air into the system.

[shedmonkey]

ah bleeding bastard brakes ..a pet hate! shed top tips

Ditch eazi bleed

Use pipe with NRV on the end of it (ie bit of oragne pipe with a slit in the wall and a little push in blank in one end- couple of quid from Halfords or similar)

Open  nipples more than  1/4 of a turn when bleeding rears - can do rears with rear drums off just cable tie the pistons pushed fully back(push them back with nipple open!) into the cylinder this lets you fanny around with adjusting later and helps push back any air through the nipple

Pump the pedal bleeding through at least half an average jam jar of fluid per corner of car
Tighten nipples
If you have replaced the whole lot ie lines/master and slaves leave for an hour have a coffee and fag possibly a cider if you live in boonie land  then repeat bleeding process just putting a "confidence" pump through each corner-in the hour you've been away any little bubbles in the line have hopefully got together  met up in one place and been shifted out on the second bleed

Tip from Triumph factory manual on bleeding sprint brakes (using just a pipe and a jar no NRV etc!) was to open nipple and pump pedal to floor three times quickly hold down on third and tighten nipple -using an assistant unless you had arms and eyes like a doctor who monster-(I've used this method to great effect when just bleeding after minor works on system rather than a full rebuild and fill etc)

I hate bleeding brakes -hate fluid getting split and contaminating stuff etc etc  so always aim to do the job once -so prepare by making sure I have everything to hand good clear working area lots of rags to hand and the jam jar on a good stable lump of wood so it doesn't get knocked over when you are opening closing nipples etc and do the job methodically not rushing

One thing you don't mention is the condition of your master cylinder? is it new ? did it get a lube up with new fluid prior to fitting-same questions for slaves?
Is there a  aftermarket servo in the system?

[CHRIS211083]

Right you have hit it in one. Adjust your rear brakes. How do you know when therear brakes need adjusting??????Because the pedal movement is greatly increased.

Don't bleed them again, justr adjust the rear brakes. Then stamp on the pedal a few times, then rotate the rear wheels and readjust. Do this four times then let us know what the pedal is like.

Chris.

[1967 MkIII]

Brakes hold :) Thanks for all your responses. it was indeed the adjusters

A few thoughts. I have often written against the Eezibleed. Listening to others i used it at 10 psi and it did the job fine.

I open the bleed screws around 1/4 turn which seems to work. I read somewhere on here that opening it too wide allows air to creep back in from the thread.

I'm not sure I have the adjusters correct as they seem to be quite far out (or not screwed in very much). Before they were almost all the way in, now I'd say they are more out than in. Another 1/4 turn and the wheel becoimes very hard to turn by hand.

I'm pretty sure the brake shoes have not centred as when i turn the drum it's clear for 3/4 way round then rubs. Also I can't spin the wheel more than 1/2 a turn before it stops by itself. I guess I should just use the car then adjust again and repeat a few times?

Brakes held fine in the garage at about 20 mph and in the street at 40 mph. As it's down to 4C and I was in a T-shirt that's all I tested  8) more tomorow on a quiet road in winter gear!

[herald948]

2057 wrote:

I'm not sure I have the adjusters correct as they seem to be quite far out (or not screwed in very much). Before they were almost all the way in, now I'd say they are more out than in. Another 1/4 turn and the wheel becoimes very hard to turn by hand.

You're probably about as good as it'll get until the new shoes bed in better. Since the new shoes are thicker, the adjuster screw won't need to go in as far.

2057 wrote:

I'm pretty sure the brake shoes have not centred as when i turn the drum it's clear for 3/4 way round then rubs. Also I can't spin the wheel more than 1/2 a turn before it stops by itself. I guess I should just use the car then adjust again and repeat a few times?

See above. Also, as previously noted, it helps to "set the rear brakes" via either the pedal or the handbrake lever before, during and maybe after adjusting, which will center them. (Every turn of the adjuster might also throw the centering off just a wee bit.) Again, though, they'll need to bed in somewhat, at which time they should more nearly take the shape of the inside of the drum. In olden times, shoes were often "arced" to fit the drum either during manufacture or by the mechanic, but I suspect most modern replacement shoes simply have linings slapped on them, then into the box and off to be installed on the customer's car!