Types of brake caliper...differences?

[307e]

Now on to the brakes of the 1967 Herald 12/50 and I am needing a replacement offside caliper as it is seriously ill. So I looked up the 12/50 and it shows it is fitted with type 12 calipers. Rimmers and Canleys say that the type 12's were fitted but no dust shields; the type 14's were fitted with the dust shields for 1967 onwards for the Herald 13/60. OK....ours has dust shields fitted and I have compared the calipers on the car with a 13/60 set I was given and I'm really struggling to see the difference, TBH. I also have a set of calipers believed to be Spitfire but I have yet to compare those. I have tried the pads in both calipers and they fit each other. Could the car be fitted with type 14's from the factory? Very confusing!!
What are the differences shape / size / appearance of type 12's in relation to type 14's? Is it possible to tell them apart because both calipers seem to fit the vertical links and line up with the path of the disc. I am happy to buy replacements but it helps if I can actually know what this car is fitted with.

Thanks,

Steve.

[Mark Hammond]

Ah but late 12/50s had the same calipers as 13/60s.  The change to Type 14s was 1967 not specific to the model.....

M.

[Clive]

The type 12 calipers use 2 bolts to clamp the 2 halves together, the type 14 uses 4.

Worth double checking that of course, my memory isn't all it was.

[Casper]

Type 12 have bellows rubber dustshields, Type 14 have low rubber dustshields held on by spring.

[heraldcoupe]

There are a few red herrings here. I have never seen any evidence of either types 14 or 12 beong fitted without dust shields at the factory. It's certainly a common mod to omit them, just not something which was done at the factory.

It is correct that the type 14s superceded the type 12s on all Heralds which were in production at the time, including late 12/50s and late 1200s. The 13/60 wasn't introduced until after the introduction of type 14s, so all 13/60s have the later calipers.

In addition to the 2 vs 4 caliper clamp bolts, the type number is often cast or stamped into the outer face of the caliper.
If you want to know what typs should be fitted to match your hubs, check the outside edge of the hub. There is a bevelled edge which runs closest to the caliper body, if this edge is rough cast it is intended to be used with type 12 calipers. If the edge is machined smooth then it is intended for use with type 14s. The machined hubs can in fact be used with either type, however the additional machining process was introduced to give improved clearance between the hub and the larger type 14 calipers.
It's not unheard of for type 14s to be fitted to unmodified type 12 hubs (NOT by the factory!), but it's not a good idea without other mods to improve clearance,

Cheers,
Bill.

[thescrapman]

Sorry for a slight hijack here but I am a man in search of an answer, and the source of the query is in what is being discussed.

I spent a few hours yesterdaty afternoon assisting Dom with the brakes on his girlfriends Herald.

He has upgraded from type 12 to 14 (done all teh hub mods etc) but has ended up with a very long pedal travel. Very long!

He fitted 2 brand new type 14 calipers, and they will pump up and give a nice firm pedal.

But after lefting off the brake pedal the pistons all slowly pull back about a milimetre. so you get a total of 4mm piston travel before the front brakes engage. all the pads rattle and can be pulled out easily.

This 4mm means the next press of the brake pedal has the option of being heart-stopping.

Has anyone else encountered this?

Cheers

Colin

[That Man]

thescrapman wrote:

Sorry for a slight hijack here but I am a man in search of an answer, and the source of the query is in what is being discussed.

I spent a few hours yesterdaty afternoon assisting Dom with the brakes on his girlfriends Herald.

He has upgraded from type 12 to 14 (done all teh hub mods etc) but has ended up with a very long pedal travel. Very long!

He fitted 2 brand new type 14 calipers, and they will pump up and give a nice firm pedal.

But after lefting off the brake pedal the pistons all slowly pull back about a milimetre. so you get a total of 4mm piston travel before the front brakes engage. all the pads rattle and can be pulled out easily.

This 4mm means the next press of the brake pedal has the option of being heart-stopping.

Has anyone else encountered this?

Cheers

Colin

Hi Colin, It sounds like the pistons are sticking to the seals rather than sliding through them, I've only had this happen myself when using stainless steel pistons as even though they have a fine turn surface finish they're still rougher than chrome plate, they needed a darn good polish then they were ok.
If they're plated pistons they might just need removing, cleaning and lubricating with some brake fluid as they may have been lying on a shelf for a while and dried-up

[307e]

Right....pretty sure that all the calipers I have are type 14's. Looking at the hubs, there is a ridge in the "slope" up to the outer edge of the hub that bolts to the road wheel. It is not machined smooth nor are any of the hubs I have and our 12/50 and the other front disc set ups are complete and not been dismantled. They actually look identical. I think I'll just go for a type 14 and hope!!

Thanks for the replies; cheers for the help especially the "2 bolts or four bolts" pointer.

Steve.

[Richard B]

Sounds like new rubber seals that may not have not settled in yet.

Are they from a supplier if so I would get him to check with them, If bay of evil, autojumble or DIY then give it a bit of a run on an A road with frequent braking to see if they improve.