Overdrive problems..

[WIMPUS]

Hi,

Friday and today i had some overdrive problems, but only in 3rd gear  :o

Sometimes it take long before it goes in and then sometimes when you press the throttle a bit  harder then it seems to slip  :o .
In 4th gear it works fine !

Friday it was a real pain, but on the way back it worked good !
Saturday it worked also good
& Today (Sunday) it was working 95% of the time good.

Seems to be more when the car /gearbox is good warm ..

Can this be a low oil level ? (need to check that this evening and the guy of the Spit/ Stag says it can be that) .

[BrendanD]

Could be the oil level yes.

[WIMPUS]

BrendanD wrote:

Could be the oil level yes.

I've topped it up this evening (but will do this again when the car / gearbox is cold).
Gone for a drive and it works very well now  ;)

And it is so easy to fill it up with my panel in the tunnel  :P

[nang]

Don't really think you need o/d in 3rd   (whistle)
Tony.

[WIMPUS]

I use it a lot in 3rd, because at 40 kph it's around 2000 rpm, and the regular speed limit is 50kph.
So that makes it rev to 2500, so always get the overdrive on.
Then the car is not revving that high :p

[BrendanD]

Perfect way to use an OD Wim.

[Saltddirk]

Tony is right in such that the difference between 3OD and 4 is not that high, and you could live without it.
But I find it also easier to go for 3OD and then just flick the switch to downshift, easier and quicker than going from 4 to 3, perfect for nice winding roads..

Mostly I forget 4 all together, going from 3OD to 4OD if I want to cruise. Downshifting I do use 4 as the speed could be too great and the OD doesnt kick in immediatelly risking to skip a gear..  :(

Dirk

[WIMPUS]

Wednesday on the nightdrive it was once that it didn't go in very good, slipping again..
For the rest it did it great ..
For the rest of the last 3 days no problems.
This evening gone for a drive and suddenly again ..
So tested it a bit more and didn't happen to much.
When i was getting back home i drove onto the bridge and fliped the overdrive on ... slipping  :B

When i changed the oil a few months ago i changed the gasket from the filter and cleaned the filter out.
Last weekend i changed the engine oil and looked at the gearbox, seemed at the rear it was leaking again ( was the same before and even put on a new oil seal.. but still..)
But also noticed oil around the filter housing & from the top of the gearbox somewhere said my uncle.

Can it be leaking so badly  ?  :o

Been thinking to change the oil again, clean the filter & co, use gasket sealant on the gasket so at least that doesn't leak anymore  :o

[nang]

Wim,
It's a British car, you'll go mad trying to stop all slight oil leaks.  ;D
Tony.

[WIMPUS]

nang wrote:

Wim,
It's a British car, you'll go mad trying to stop all slight oil leaks.  ;D
Tony.

Tony, i know that !  ;D

But everything seems to be covered in oil ...
If i need to top it up every week or 2  :o

My diff leaks very bad also, engine sump is sweating but no leaks at the drain plug  :P
If you look at mine from around the drain plug of the gearbox to back ... all oily !  ;D (Triumph Rust Protection System  :P ).


But i find it strange i never needed to top it up in the first 6 months i drove it with i guess 10 year old oil in it.
Now for the last month or 2 ..

[rotoflex]

Can you tell where it is leaking from the diff?

[WIMPUS]

rotoflex wrote:

Can you tell where it is leaking from the diff?

eum.. everywhere !  ;D
Leaks at the front and at the sides ..
But i've got another one on the shed  :)

[GT6 M]

Wim, ye can  change the rear OD seal with oot taking the OD oot,  
slacken the mount off, undo prop bolts,jack up,and the OD end will rise up.
need a flange holder to stop shaft pinning,or use a air gun,

get some oil in fast,or and, get the leak sorted.
as there be no oil to lube the thing.
Oil is cheeeper than a new box ,or diff.
If ye div,nt, then ye be coming on,..... Ive got this rumble in me OD/Gearbox, any ideas.!!!!!

As for leaks,Dont use gaskets on rebuilds,
totally useless ,oil weepage every where found, been useing a sealant for ages
loctite 475, no leaks any where, no gaskets, great stuff

here try this, it cheep for the size,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOCTITE-574-250ML-brand-new-/221452487649?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item338f98cbe1

or this, only a wee bottle, but still  like the wee Burdy says
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Loctite-574-Sealant-/181424755743?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a3dc2141f

M

[WIMPUS]

796 wrote:

Wim, ye can  change the rear OD seal with oot taking the OD oot,  
slacken the mount off, undo prop bolts,jack up,and the OD end will rise up.
need a flange holder to stop shaft pinning,or use a air gun,

get some oil in fast,or and, get the leak sorted.
as there be no oil to lube the thing.
Oil is cheeeper than a new box ,or diff.
If ye div,nt, then ye be coming on,..... Ive got this rumble in me OD/Gearbox, any ideas.!!!!!

As for leaks,Dont use gaskets on rebuilds,
totally useless ,oil weepage every where found, been useing a sealant for ages
loctite 475, no leaks any where, no gaskets, great stuff

here try this, it cheep for the size,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOCTITE-574-250ML-brand-new-/221452487649?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item338f98cbe1

or this, only a wee bottle, but still  like the wee Burdy says
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Loctite-574-Sealant-/181424755743?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a3dc2141f

M

Rear oil seal has been changed a year ago of something (when it was painted & co).
I guess there is some play on the shaft and that makes it leak.

I will see next week for another oil change or the week after that !
Need a new drain plug first ..

Hopefully it will be sorted then !  :)
it only started to leak bad when i got new oil in  :o

[WIMPUS]

Also been looking, seems there is a pressure filter also...

Does that need a clean out also ? :)

Also someone told me about a vent on the gearbox (like on the diff), where can i find this ?  :)

[WIMPUS]

Oh well, been looking to fill her up gain with oil..
Removed the drain plug (with the inspection plate in the tunnel it's easy for me !).

To my surprise a lot of oil came running out ! (think)
So got something under it to collect the oil (already some oil on the drive  :B ).
Let it all run out and installed the plug again and then gone for a drive..
Seems to work ok now !

The big test is a long run..

[WIMPUS]

Well today it started to play up again !   :o

Been driving a few oldtimer rally's, friday evening to herne wasn't a problem.

Only again 3rd was the problem.
Opened up the drain plug and got some new oil in and let it run out (there wasn't much out !).
Then drove around and in the beginning it was sort of the same , but not it seems to work even when you only drive around 1700 rpm or so, od on & press the throttle it just works .

So said it again to my friend with the Stag, he said to try thicker oil in the gearbox/overdrive.
He had similar problems with his Stag, power steering sometimes just fell away  ??).
Got some thicker oil and it was fixed.

I'm using valvoline gl4 ep90 for in mine.
What can i use otherwise ?  :)

[JohnD]

Have you gone through Canley's Overdrive troubleshooting list?
http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/infodatabase/overdrivesdtype.html&xsl=infodatabase.xsl

JOhn

[WIMPUS]

JohnD wrote:

Have you gone through Canley's Overdrive troubleshooting list?
http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/infodatabase/overdrivesdtype.html&xsl=infodatabase.xsl

JOhn

Well, if i look i've got problem number 2 on the list ..
Strangly with some extra new oil it does work for a long time  :o

[WIMPUS]

JohnD wrote:

Have you gone through Canley's Overdrive troubleshooting list?
http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/infodatabase/overdrivesdtype.html&xsl=infodatabase.xsl

JOhn

Well, if i look i've got problem number 2 on the list ..
Strangly with some extra new oil it does work for a long time  :o

And i can imagine if the clutch of the o/d is worn, 4rd gear wouldn't work good also.

4rd gear is always working like it should..

[WIMPUS]

Found another site about the J-type overdrive i have .

And i know i cleaned out the metal mesh filter, but it seems to have another filter also.
Maybe it's that ?
And i know it does leak a bit at the filter housing..

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/jod/JOD1/JOD1.htm

[Doug Paterson]

4526 wrote:

Well, if i look i've got problem number 2 on the list ..
Strangly with some extra new oil it does work for a long time  :o

Except that link is about the D-type OD and yours is a J-Type (isn't it?)

[Doug Paterson]

Wim

I had very similar problems to yours years ago (on a recon overdrive) and I did 3 things.

1.  Drained and temporarily filled and ran the car on THINNER EP oil.  Not crazy thin, just EP75.  

2.  Changed the O-Rings which came with the solenoid for the ones sold by Rimmers - which are a thicker rubber and create a better seal.   I always was suspicious that the tiny once that come with the new solenoids could allow oil to bypass them thus reducing pressure where you need it.

3.  I've forgotten what the 3rd thing was ..........

Anyway I think 1 and 2 were the important ones.  Why the thinner oil - well if you're cone clutch isn't worn then pressure is your problem.  it may be that there is crud in your gearbox that is occasionally blocking the pressure relief valve.  The pressure increase at higher road speeds could explain why you are OK in 4th.  The thinner oil for a few hundred miles can help flush the crud into the sump/bottom of gearbox and its more likely to stay there with thinner oil.  Then drain and refill with EP90.

Worth a try based on your symptoms.

But I'm afraid it COULD be a worn cone clutch.  If that is the case best option will be an exchange.

[WIMPUS]

Doug_P wrote:

Wim

I had very similar problems to yours years ago (on a recon overdrive) and I did 3 things.

1.  Drained and temporarily filled and ran the car on THINNER EP oil.  Not crazy thin, just EP75.  

2.  Changed the O-Rings which came with the solenoid for the ones sold by Rimmers - which are a thicker rubber and create a better seal.   I always was suspicious that the tiny once that come with the new solenoids could allow oil to bypass them thus reducing pressure where you need it.

3.  I've forgotten what the 3rd thing was ..........

Anyway I think 1 and 2 were the important ones.  Why the thinner oil - well if you're cone clutch isn't worn then pressure is your problem.  it may be that there is crud in your gearbox that is occasionally blocking the pressure relief valve.  The pressure increase at higher road speeds could explain why you are OK in 4th.  The thinner oil for a few hundred miles can help flush the crud into the sump/bottom of gearbox and its more likely to stay there with thinner oil.  Then drain and refill with EP90.

Worth a try based on your symptoms.

But I'm afraid it COULD be a worn cone clutch.  If that is the case best option will be an exchange.

Ok!

If it's a worn cone clutch, then it shouldn't be working good in 4th i guess ..

[WIMPUS]

Or can it be that the pressure filter (NKC23 at rimmers ) is full of crud ..

or can it be because it leaks a bit at the back (filter housing) that when it's a hot day and the gearbox is warmed up ver good that the oil becomes thin and that it leaks easier ?  :o