Tiredness and the RBRR

[JohnD]

I was prompted to write again on this subject by an article from MotorSport's archive,  which you can read at: Pierre Levegh's 23 hours of Le Mans but I will briefly precis.

Levegh was a middle-grade, middle-aged French race driver who in 1952 set out to win Le Mans in a French car.   He drove the entire race himself, refusing to change with his co-driver, until after 22 hours behind the wheel, the car failed.   Not crashed, the engine failed, but so did Levegh, who needed hospital treatment.   

An extreme example, in an extreme motorsport event, that will never be equalled, as today, no Le Mans driver may do so for more than four hours at a time, or fourteen hours in the 24.   The RBRR is an event that, IMHO, rivals the 24 hours, and one that we should strive to preserve.      Yet the RBRR, as far as I know, has no such duration regulations.

There is, thank goodness, no history of accidents on the RBRR that can be attributed to tiredness, and few of accidents at all.  But we have heard of drivers setting off home after the finish, feeling they 'needed a coffee' and falling asleep in the service area car park, before they could get out of the car.     

 A vigilant police officer who thought that an accident was due to fatigue might also note the RBRR livery on the car.   There are no UK regulations that limit the duration behind the wheel of private drivers, but in R.v.Renown Consultants, that company was successfully prosecuted, for the way they allowed their employees to work and then drive home tired.   Club Triumph might equally be in the frame, which would stop future RBRRs, with no hope of reprieve.

To protect the RBRR, I urge the Club to take action, in a world that is hostile to effort, courage and risk taking.     In particular, I suggest that all drivers should be obliged to take a rest, preferably to sleep, after the finish and before they set off home.  Just a twenty minute nap is effective against fatigue, but I would suggest a least one hour.

John

[Clive]

The whole issue of tiredness has been taken very seriously in the 3 and a bit events I have taken part in. Plenty is said to cover it, and it is made clear many many times over than nobody should drive if they are too tired, and should swap drivers or pull over for a sleep. I think it is in the written instructions too. So is already fully dealt with.

[Velocita Rosso]

All emphasis is made on making drivers aware at all briefings and regs about tiredness and safety .

I`m sure that all the organisers have this in hand.....as they have done over the last few decades

I`m pretty sure that no member of the UK constabulary have had cause to pull someone up and question their use of a Triumph with an RBRR sticker attached....especially when there have been members of the constabulary enter this event

[Tim Hunt]

I agree with Clive and Mike, the Club is at pains to tell entrants that we neither encourage nor condone driving when tired. There is a world of difference between racing at nine tenths plus for several hours and driving on public roads within the posted speed limits. However, I consider four hours too long a stint on the RBRR and generally change after two. The key is to hand over the wheel as soon as you start to feel tired, not just drive on regardless, that way potential disaster lies. Be honest with yourself, if you notice you are starting to brake a little late for hazards that is a sure sign that concentration is lapsing with the onset of fatigue and it is time to change driver. If your co-driver is not ready to take over they should have a cat nap.

I now have longer experience of the RBRR than anyone and based on that my key recommendations are to get a good night's sleep on the Thursday to have some ZZZs in the bank and start refreshed, sleep or cat nap on the Friday night when it is all to easy for first timers to get carried away by the excitement and be sure to use ear plugs/defenders and an eye shade to help you drop off.

Tim

[PeteStupps]

I think John's point is focused on the end of the event, and those who drive home rather than stop over in Stevenage. By that stage the last kick of adrenaline has dissipated and you're pretty frazzled - can't just have been me?! 

There was a thread somewhere (FB maybe?) following 2018, from someone who had a near miss on the way home due to exhaustion and lack of concentration. 

Have to say I agree with John, people who are planning to drive home after the finish should be strongly advised to get some kip before doing so! Maybe that's already in the paperwork somewhere but it's sensible to avoid complacency. 

While on the grim subject, the London-to-Brighton veteran car run had an awful fatality last year when a Canadian chap accidentally joined the motorway, and it wasn't the first. I don't know what the consequences were for the organisers but it must have been very unpleasant in any case. 

Pete

[RobPearce]

I have always driven home at the end of the event. These days it's not very far but last millenium I lived in Banbury, so it was a fair drive. I consider it a final leg and apply the same rules as for the run. In particular, we always plan for the navigator to sleep on the final leg in to the finish, if at all possible (it wasn't in 2018 because the last leg was too convoluted and hampered by roadworks, plus we were way behind time and the satnag was determined to take us to the wrong entrance) leaving them fit to do the home run.

Sure there's a bit less "adrenaline" but, to be honest, not much. If you've had a good run, or even if you've spent the weekend overcoming obstacles, there's a lingering feeling of victory that keeps the buzz up. Taking a nap at Knebworth actually risks losing that and leaving you more tired.

At the end of the day, each team has to know their own limits and how their bodies react and so on. If you live in Scotland you need a hotel room at Stevenage. If you live in Baldock you can almost certainly drive straight home.

[Greta]

I have to agree with John. To preserve RBRR ( and the Club's reputation ) there may be a need to give stronger advice re continuing to drive after the event.

In  addition to RBRR 2018, I have recently done some mega-long drives in my Triumphs. Rolduc to Keswick & Monte Carlo to Keswick - on both occasions planned half hour catnaps resulted in being completely out cold for over two hours - & this in addition to other naps & at least 2/3 of each journey having shared the driving. ( & dozed while navigating )

Age, I think is a significant factor, as well as quality & quantity of sleep before the journey starts. Rallies such as Liege - Sophia - Liege were multi-day events with drivers clocking up enormous number of miles & hours at the wheel - but then, most were in their 20's or 30's - where, dare I say, many of us are of a more genteel vintage! I know several entrants are crews of 3 and some may only have a few miles to get home to bed but this is a topic worth highlighting.

One area that could perhaps be more strongly emphasised is the length of time that the finish control is open. In the excitement of my first RBRR Phil & I were very focused on the 48 hour thing - although we did snatch a couple of short stops where we both slept - we were perhaps too focused on 48 hours getting to Knebworth about 48.05 & in the first 10 back - some cars were two hours later! Would a slightly early start on the Friday & keeping the finish control open slightly longer encourage tired drivers to take any rest they need - safe in the knowledge they will still earn a coveted finishers award?

Ultimately it is the responsibility of the individual to safe-guard themselves, the event, and others on the road.

[Velocita Rosso]

Quoted from Greta-

 

"Ultimately it is the responsibility of the individual to safe-guard themselves, the event, and others on the road."

The most important part.....

However as previously stated the RBRR committee make it quite clear.....to take great care in driving with fatigue. You can say no more.

The decades old event regs has always portrayed this advice  

[McJim]

Well I was wondering when the bi-annual whinge about tiredness on the RBRR would be posted by JohnD - and here it is.

A person who has frequently made us all aware over many years that he would never enter the RBRR as he considers it too dangerous.

A person who is not even a member of Club Triumph but takes it upon himself to state the bleeding obvious that driving while tired is dangerous, something given great prominence in all the information supplied by the organisers of the RBRR.

Before you all get hot and bothered that I'm doing a character assassination, consider this.

I have no interest in ever going angling.

Every year, more people are killed in angling than in motorsport.

I am not a member of an angling club, yet, even then, I don't feel compelled to tell every angler that what they are doing is potentially dangerous - because it is bleeding obvious.

I don't feel the need to tell an angler that the thing he loves to do is dangerous - I'm not an angler - I have no interest in going fishing.

So why would I want to tell someone doing the RBRR, that loves doing the event, that it is dangerous - if I have no intention of ever taking part and have no interest in the event.

You know, all those guys doing circuit racing would be a lot safer if they all went a bit more slowly, or even very slowly, or didn't do it at all.  

Then they would be really safe.

If you've no interest in angling, don't feel the need to criticise angling.

If you've no interest in circuit racing, don't feel the need to criticise circuit racing.

If you've no interest in the RBRR, don't feel the need to criticise the RBRR.

Your comments fall on the ears of intelligent people who have the ability to think for themselves, assess the risk and get on with their lives and your misgivings will be given the attention they deserve.  As they always have been every two years. 

It won't stop a single person from taking part in the RBRR.

So why bump your gums?

The best part of all this is, that the forum has such little traffic, few will even read this thread.

Jim.  (Never went fishing in my life as I consider it could be dangerous - but then everyone knows that without having to be told.)

[Velocita Rosso]

Quoted from McJim Too-

Well I was wondering when the bi-annual whinge about tiredness on the RBRR would be posted by JohnD - and here it is.

A person who has frequently made us all aware over many years that he would never enter the RBRR as he considers it too dangerous.

A person who is not even a member of Club Triumph but takes it upon himself to state the bleeding obvious that driving while tired is dangerous, something given great prominence in all the information supplied by the organisers of the RBRR.

Before you all get hot and bothered that I'm doing a character assassination, consider this.

I have no interest in ever going angling.

Every year, more people are killed in angling than in motorsport.

I am not a member of an angling club, yet, even then, I don't feel compelled to tell every angler that what they are doing is potentially dangerous - because it is bleeding obvious.

I don't feel the need to tell an angler that the thing he loves to do is dangerous - I'm not an angler - I have no interest in going fishing.

So why would I want to tell someone doing the RBRR, that loves doing the event that it is dangerous - if I have no intention of ever taking part and have no interest in the event.

You know, all those guys doing circuit racing would be a lot safer if they all went a bit more slowly, or even very slowly, or didn't do it at all.  

Then they would be really safe.

If you've no interest in angling, don't feel the need to criticise angling.

If you've no interest in circuit racing, don't feel the need to criticise circuit racing.

If you've no interest in the RBRR, don't feel the need to criticise the RBRR.

Your comments fall on the ears of intelligent people who have the ability to think for themselves, assess the risk and get on with their lives and your misgivings will be given the attention they deserve.  As they always have been every two years. 

It won't stop a single person from taking part in the RBRR.

So why bump your gums?

The best part of all this is, that the forum has such little traffic, few will even read this thread.

Jim.  (Never went fishing in my life as I consider it could be dangerous - but then everyone knows that without having to be told.)

....and ..and ....and....John D`s last comments (before this silly input) was...." ...and I will not be posting on  CT`s forum ever again"🤔

[McJim]

Mike,

As for "silly input", I had to check myself to stop me putting into print what I think of this guy.

Every RBRR year, it's the same "tiredness" nonsense from this guy before some other person, who should know better, starts trotting out drivers hours regulations for HGV drivers ad nauseum.

He has no interest in the event, won't take part in it, isn't even a member of Club Triumph and pontificates as though he is some legal expert intimating that Club Triumph would be legally liable if there were some sort of incident when anyone who has taken part in the RBRR or any motorsport event knows that you sign an indemnification form saying that you are responsible for your own actions and the club is not responsible for your actions i.e. driving while tired.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but if you have no interest in taking part in the RBRR, then they should keep their opinions to themselves rather than dissing the Club's premier event especially when they are not even a member of this club.

"Silly input" indeed.

You're from Yorkshire, man.

You should speak bluntly and tell this guy where to get off.

If you come on here as a non member and slag off this club and it's premier event, you should expect a sharp-tongued response.

Jim.  (No prisoners taken.)

[mpbarrett]

Jim and Michaels (Public relations officer) comments are offensive and unwarranted.. You dont have to agree with people views but you can at least be civil.

No wonder they is hardly any discussion on this site.

Mike

 

 

[Velocita Rosso]

Mike ...you should know me by now,after all these years............Where on earth was i offensive. The pure facts ONLY just spelt out, I have laid out what the RBRR committee advise verbally and in the regs

Also FACT.JD said he would not post on this forum again

Now explain to me, either written or verbally where my FACTS are offensive. There are no insults, swearing or mis-truth in my comments.  

[Tim Bancroft]

I am going to try and sit on the fence here.

Jim is passionate about the RBRR and all types of long distance driving events, if he lived down in the lower parts of England I am sure he would be a driving force behind such events as Ted's World Cup Rally meets. The organising team for the RBRR are indebted to Jim for his help over the last couple of events. So I think Jim can be excused for his passionate comments.

He is right, John D does tend to come on here before the RBRR and warn about the dangers of the event and they, of course, should be considered. We the team do state throughout the build up to the weekend that crews should attempt to rest up, eat sensible foods in the days before and be aware of that when on the event that they should not drive when tired, swap over etc. This swapping of drivers being more relevant to the those in two seaters. However, you can lead a horse to water......the amount of crews who arrive at the start looking shattered is mind boggling....Human nature to leave things to the last minute eh! Take Tim 's advice please!

One of the ways we have tried to allow for sleep deprivation through the later stages of the RBRR is to build in more frequent stops from Sunday morning as we have always felt that the worse section for this factor is from the Severn Bridge/Chepstow onwards, therefore Okehampton was slotted in. We then looked at Lands End onwards and decided to add Bude, Badgers Holt, Pimperne etc on.

John is (or was) an anaesthetist, so obviously pretty tuned into sleep(!), hence his concerns. And I like to think that he states them through his general interest of the Triumph scene in the UK and indeed the world. John has entered and I think finished the 10CR in an open topped Spitfire back in the 00s and to be fair, looked shattered at the end of it.

I must admit that I did not know about the '4 hour driving rule' for Le Mans, and must admit that sounds a damn good idea (of course, in that race, it may be felt that after 4 hours of what is fraught driving, driver's speed may reduce due to fatigue). We cannot enforce it for the RBRR, but I doubt many drive for more than that period when taking part. I have always felt that after 2 or 3 hours kip, I wake up and want to get driving and I think many are of the same opinion. But, thank you John, I will state this within the Road Book and at the Drivers Meeting. To be fair, most of the people who take part look fairly intelligent (!!!), so we hope that they can conduct themselves in an intelligent manner.

After the event, I have had many finishers tell me that they enjoyed the RBRR apart from the lack of sleep, so will not enter the event again. I find that really refreshing, no macho nonsense, just honesty. By the way I have also had one or two finishers tell me that they have enjoyed more sleep than they normally get in a weekend!!! Also, of course, many of the regular entrants are starting to get on in age and will struggle to contend with the lack of sleep on the RBRR and will stop entering. This will be one of the factors that leads to the end of the event: Lack of sleep, emissions, H&S, electric cars, rust and general lack of interest in old Triumph cars will kill of the RBRR.

BTW, every time we have run the event since 2004, we have obtained a TAP and the MSA UK/Motorsport UK have not had any issue with the basic ethos of the RBRR. 

Must admit I have enjoyed this thread, good to see that many care about the Club and the RBRR and therefore go into print. So thank you, John, Jim, Mike, Clive, Tim, Rob, Nuala and Mike B. 

CT Forum: There is still life in the old dog! This thread would have been shut down if stated upon Facebook and, would have been lost after a day or so!

 

 

 

 

[mpbarrett]

Quoted from Velocita Rosso-

Mike ...you should know me by now,after all these years............Where on earth was i offensive. The pure facts ONLY just spelt out, I have laid out what the RBRR committee advise verbally and in the regs

Also FACT.JD said he would not post on this forum again

Now explain to me, either written or verbally where my FACTS are offensive. There are no insults, swearing or mis-truth in my comments.  

ok  I was wrong you weren't being offensive.
 I thought JohnD made a fair point and the attacks on him seemed unreasonable.. but I will shut up and go back to the garage 

BTW as you said on the FB page "put someone politely in their place".. which is obviously not on this forum.

Mike

[Velocita Rosso]

Ok Mike, I accept your comments......but JD has raised a lot of unnecessary comments from various quarters, which prompted me to contact Tim B and ask him to comment......as he has done above.

I just cannot understand why people have to be so critical of events that are promoted and enjoyed  by such a club and its members

[JohnD]

Quoted from McJim Too-

Well I was wondering when the bi-annual whinge about tiredness on the RBRR would be posted by JohnD - and here it is.

A person who has frequently made us all aware over many years that he would never enter the RBRR as he considers it too dangerous.

A person who is not even a member of Club Triumph but takes it upon himself to state the bleeding obvious that driving while tired is dangerous, something given great prominence in all the information supplied by the organisers of the RBRR.

Well, well.  The mixture of bile from certain members and condescension from officials must be expected.     The support from others is most welcome.   But the prophet has no honour in his own land, which is a pity when I so admire the RBRR (Done twice) and 10CR (once was enough!) that my concern is to preserve them, in a  nasty world where the finger of blame seeks out the blameless and curses them.

Thank you to those who took my point about continued driving after the event.   That, and the future of both events was my concern.

[McJim]

And this posted by a John Davies on his Facebook page.  Ironic doesn't even come close.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/01/houston-police-chief-art-acevedo-trump-mouth-shut-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/?fbclid=IwAR0KXMXw1jBDhTi37q-0CQELAxUAMh51PNi9dIY9Fqz9eqaPa1ZuU4fla7w

[Bitumen Boy]

Quoted from Tim Hunt-

I now have longer experience of the RBRR than anyone and based on that my key recommendations are to get a good night's sleep on the Thursday to have some ZZZs in the bank and start refreshed, sleep or cat nap on the Friday night when it is all to easy for first timers to get carried away by the excitement and be sure to use ear plugs/defenders and an eye shade to help you drop off.

Tim

Just a couple of thoughts from a shift worker here, I know my limits and know I couldn't do the RBRR safely, but I have much experience of working weird hours sleeping at odd times - check the time of this post..!

Ear plugs (Boots' foam ones are very good) and eye shades/masks are useful, BUT don't use them for the first time when you really need to sleep because you'll struggle. You need to get used to them for a couple of weeks first while safely in bed at home before trying to use them on the road or in unfamiliar surroundings. Both feel uncomfortable at first and will be more of a hindrance than a help to you, and that's something you don't want to find out too late.

[Tim Bancroft]

Good advice Dan, thank you.

[Nick Jones]

I think it's pity that John's comments, clearly (to me at least) intended as constructive, have not been properly read and considered by some.

In today's world there are far too many to take offence and find fault and that includes many who would consider the RBRR highly irresponsible on a number of grounds, with driving while tired, potentially very tired, being one.

John's point - don't give them any ammo!  What's to get offended about?  Yes, it is highlighted in the reg, the briefings, the drivers meetings.  Yes, many of the entrants have done it before, some many times.  But not all.  It bears repeating.  Also worth remembering that John has spent a fair chunk of his working life in operating theatres helping repair RTA victims.....

From my own perspective, I've done The RBRR once, in 2008 as a two man crew in a car with seats that don't recline, in fairly inclement weather and I won't be doing it again.  I treasure the memory of doing it though.  Mostly.  And I've marshalled on on every one since.

I, someone who has never learned to nap, and finds it hard enough to sleep in a bed, recognise that I'm not suited to the event.  I can do one night (and have on many CT events now) but I can't do two.  The RBRR 2008 ranks in the top 3 of the most knackered out of my head I've ever been.  The other times were returning from Sydney via Johannesburg on two consecutive night flights (31 hours total) with a day out in South Africa in the middle and in hospital after surgery and complications left me unable to sleep for 3 days and nights even when in bed and drugged.  Doesn't help that they "wake" you every hour to make sure you're not dead!

Incidentally, as regards driving home after the event, somebody, bless 'em, told me that booking a hotel as close as humanly possible to the finish would be money very well spent.  And they were so right.  No way could we have made the three hour drive home on top.

Nick

[aleksandar]

I have just a few observations, for the excitable readers of this forum thread.

Motorists are well informed of their responsibility relating to driving whilst tired, that is NOT to do it. Motorists are advised to TAKE A BREAK if feeling tired.

Whilst driving along major roads (such as a motorway), there are even signs advising that if a vehicle driver is feeling tired, TAKE A BREAK. Remembering that the maximum stay at nearly all the establishments is 2 hours.

Question 1) Do either the UK Highway Law or  Highway Code, state that all vehicle users are banned from setting off to drive on the public highway JUST IN CASE they might get tired whilst driving.

simple answer people, either YES or NO.

Question 2) Do the RBRR organising team INFORM all entrants of the responsibility not to drive whilst tired, both at the drivers meeting and in the event literature. It is even stated that if all team members are tired, to pull over and have a sleep!

simple answer again, either YES or NO.

Therefore, how can any veiled suggestion that the RBRR event organisers are irresponsible, JUST IN CASE, an entrant ignores the CLEAR advice on driving whilst tired.

Are critics suggesting the event be banned?

Question 3) Are the public BANNED from driving on the public highway, JUST IN CASE, they might break the speed limit?

simple answer, YES or NO.

It is general knowledge that Organised Crime, Terrorist’s and others who carry out unspeakable acts use the World Wide Web, Forums and so called ‘Social Media’. Are web platforms, forums, ‘social media’ platforms, BANNED from operating because they FACILITATE these heinous acts! 

Tim and all involved in RBRR organising, you do an excellent job.

UK Motorsports Association and the various police forces would soon pull the plug if the event was classified as DANGEROUS or IRRESPONSIBLE.

 

[malcty]

Quoted from Nick Jones-

I think it's pity that John's comments, clearly (to me at least) intended as constructive, have not been properly read and considered by some.

In today's world there are far too many to take offence and find fault and that includes many who would consider the RBRR highly irresponsible on a number of grounds, with driving while tired, potentially very tired, being one.

John's point - don't give them any ammo!  What's to get offended about?  Yes, it is highlighted in the reg, the briefings, the drivers meetings.  Yes, many of the entrants have done it before, some many times.  But not all.  It bears repeating.  Also worth remembering that John has spent a fair chunk of his working life in operating theatres helping repair RTA victims.....

From my own perspective, I've done The RBRR once, in 2008 as a two man crew in a car with seats that don't recline, in fairly inclement weather and I won't be doing it again.  I treasure the memory of doing it though.  Mostly.  And I've marshalled on on every one since.

I, someone who has never learned to nap, and finds it hard enough to sleep in a bed, recognise that I'm not suited to the event.  I can do one night (and have on many CT events now) but I can't do two.  The RBRR 2008 ranks in the top 3 of the most knackered out of my head I've ever been.  The other times were returning from Sydney via Johannesburg on two consecutive night flights (31 hours total) with a day out in South Africa in the middle and in hospital after surgery and complications left me unable to sleep for 3 days and nights even when in bed and drugged.  Doesn't help that they "wake" you every hour to make sure you're not dead!

Incidentally, as regards driving home after the event, somebody, bless 'em, told me that booking a hotel as close as humanly possible to the finish would be money very well spent.  And they were so right.  No way could we have made the three hour drive home on top.

Nick

Having read all the reports so far, surely it all comes down to common sense. I have done 4 successful RBRR in a vitesse with only 2 of us. each time i and my co-driver were over 70 yrs old. Let us all dweell on the fact that "tiredness can kill "and bear that in mind. Malc.

[malcty]

Quoted from Nick Jones-

I think it's pity that John's comments, clearly (to me at least) intended as constructive, have not been properly read and considered by some.

In today's world there are far too many to take offence and find fault and that includes many who would consider the RBRR highly irresponsible on a number of grounds, with driving while tired, potentially very tired, being one.

John's point - don't give them any ammo!  What's to get offended about?  Yes, it is highlighted in the reg, the briefings, the drivers meetings.  Yes, many of the entrants have done it before, some many times.  But not all.  It bears repeating.  Also worth remembering that John has spent a fair chunk of his working life in operating theatres helping repair RTA victims.....

From my own perspective, I've done The RBRR once, in 2008 as a two man crew in a car with seats that don't recline, in fairly inclement weather and I won't be doing it again.  I treasure the memory of doing it though.  Mostly.  And I've marshalled on on every one since.

I, someone who has never learned to nap, and finds it hard enough to sleep in a bed, recognise that I'm not suited to the event.  I can do one night (and have on many CT events now) but I can't do two.  The RBRR 2008 ranks in the top 3 of the most knackered out of my head I've ever been.  The other times were returning from Sydney via Johannesburg on two consecutive night flights (31 hours total) with a day out in South Africa in the middle and in hospital after surgery and complications left me unable to sleep for 3 days and nights even when in bed and drugged.  Doesn't help that they "wake" you every hour to make sure you're not dead!

Incidentally, as regards driving home after the event, somebody, bless 'em, told me that booking a hotel as close as humanly possible to the finish would be money very well spent.  And they were so right.  No way could we have made the three hour drive home on top.

Nick

Having read all the reports so far, surely it all comes down to common sense. I have done 4 successful RBRR in a vitesse with only 2 of us. each time i and my co-driver were over 70 yrs old. Let us all dweell on the fact that "tiredness can kill "and bear that in mind. Malc.

[Tim Bancroft]

I really think this thread needs to finish now as I do believe we are all really enthusiastic about the RBRR, but just coming at it from different angles.

If nothing else, John's original message has made me and the RBRR team think again about how we convey the tiredness aspect of the event, and we will fine tune the information that we either send out or speak about at the Drivers Meeting. On that subject, I don't know of any other event similar in nature to the RBRR or the 10CR that actively asks the entrants to attend so that they can be briefed about the event and for us the Organisers to use to get the many facets of the event across...I think by holding these meetings we are taking our duty to entrants.

I think we have a terrific responsibility to other road users, entrants and those that support the event to try as hard to get the message across. 

I still worry about the amount of body/health prep work that people do before the work. So many seem to spend an inordinate amount of time getting their cars ready, but don't worry about the weak part of the team, themselves. In the past we have really tried to get this over, but it does seem to fall on deaf ears. We need to push this point. To be absolutely honest, I am starting to think that the RBRR team should stop taking part as I for one feel quite stressed on the eve of the event...not ideal to feel like that before undertaking the drive.

By the way, this RBRR has broken new ground (if we do get to run the event), we have not had one withdrawal from the entry list, usually by now we would have suffered say 10no. I see also that a lot of clubman motorsport events (Autosolo, Targa events etc) that are able to run have enjoyed very high take up of places. Looks like Corona has shaken us all up and made many of us think about getting out there and using our cars. Fascinating. 

Anyway, can I ask that we draw a line under this subject.