Team Broom preparation

[Sheepy]

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[Sheepy]

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[Sheepy]

And the last.

So now we shall have to install it back on the engine.  Then onto the next job!

[Saltddirk]

some progress,

The head is back on the engine, NOS head gasket and all torqued up properly.
I had a new-ish gasket that came with a kit, but Shaun found that the tolerances were a bit too great and the fitting too loose around the bores so we dug out the NOS Standard one which fitted perfectly

[Saltddirk]

Even the specialist has to check the workshop manual (only to look up the torque values :) )

[Saltddirk]

meanwhile I have been busy finalizing the loom, If you ever decide to make your own, one word of advise: DONT put it away halfway through, you will spend at least as much time in trying to trace everything again as you did putting the wires in in the first place.

Dry checking for size, to see if the spurs start at the right place
and then wrapping,

[Saltddirk]

The final product.

OD Spares also send notice that the OD box is ready, so once that one is back home it is out with the engine again, bolt the new box on, install the loom while the engine is out, then slot it back in, bolt on all ancillaries and hope for the best...

Dirk

[Tim Bancroft]

Dirk,

Do you have an oil cooler on the engine? I was talking to Andy Martin the other day who runs the ex works Vitesse. He has a lovely TR4A and stated that he used to have oil pressure issues on a long journey when he used to run the 4 for long periods, an oil cooler sorted the pressure problem.

Blimey, that loom looks a work of art, great.

The RBRR organisational team and me are looking forward to seeing the car at the start, keep going!!!

[Saltddirk]

Tim,

Yes I have an oil cooler, the idea is to get it installed inside the front wing, but the debate is still open on how to protect it from debris and flying stones....
Here is a picture of me trying the adapter for size... (was not going to include it :) )
and the next picture for it's proposed location, albeit on the other side ( i did not have clear picture handy of the left hand side). The thinking now is to get an aluminum plate bent in a perhaps 50 degr angle so it sort of follows the wheel arch. If the cooler sits behind this, probably a bit further aft than the support the bottom and front should be  protected while still allowing air to pass over it for the cooling bit.

D

[JohnD]

Dirk,
IMHO, you would be foolish to install the cooler in such a vulnerable position.  Hole it, and you start to bleed the engine's life blood.  It would  directly in the line of fire of gravel thrown up by the tyre.

John

[Tim Bancroft]

Got to agree with John, very vulnerable.

How about in front of the water radiator?

[JohnD]

Perhaps Tim and I don't understand your intent with your aluminium plate.
Pictures, drawings?

What car is this, I don't recognise it from the pics.
As Tim suggests, on my Vitesse, mine is between the chassis rails, behind the antiroll bar.  The front valance and bar will deflect most stones.  I've never had oil cooler damage and it works fine there.

JOhn

[Saltddirk]

space is rather restricted up front,

I'll see if I can make a little drawing to explain the plate.

So far I have not seen a cooler on any Renown, but it is more or less the same position as where roadster owners put theirs, but there it sits behind the baffle in the wing, which the renown lacks.
not sure if you can understand what I mean from the attached scan, basically it would entail in making a protection from front and below while allowing the air to pass over the top

D

[Saltddirk]

wanted to add that I understand the concerns, and that if it does fit on the front of the engine it will be installed there, but so far I have serious doubts it will interfere with the steering, with all the drop arms and idlers.

Will know for sure once the radiator is back on

D

[rotoflex]

What if you attached a short duct to the oil cooler, just enough to put a piece of mosquito screen over to deflect gravel?
You could even use it to turn a corner.
It would allow you to even mount it facing downward if that would be safest.

[JohnD]

Bill,
A screen fine enough to protect will restrict air flow a LOT.
"Mosquito net"?   You must suffer from some killer mosquitoes if you think that a delicate mesh like that will not be ribboned in yards!
And asking the airflow to turn though 90 degrees like that will further restrict air flow.   At the least you would need 'turning vanes'.

Do you really NEED an oil cooler in a Renown?
John

[Saltddirk]

John,

Design is at best a bit "antiquated" and below bonnet cooling is not that great, mainly because airflow is restricted, the sides are closed with only 3 louvres each side that extract air from enginebay to the outside world.

But in normal driving I never had any issues with cooling no. They do overheat (or at least rise in temperature) in traffic jams or on hot summer days at slow speeds- high demands (uphill and such). Generally a quick session of the Kenlow cures this.
Now RBRR is not normal driving by a long shot. So it seems to be a good idea to extract a bit more calories and give the oil and engine a bit of a reprieve.  
I still believe that the original engine failure last year was linked to oil pressure issues and would rather go for the Belt and Braces approach.

There must be a good spot to install a cooler on such a big car!

somewhere....

[JohnD]

Ah! RBRR! Explains all!

But Heralds, Vitesses, had no extraction ducts, and the bonnet exit ducts that are fitted to other cars are ineffective.  The under-bonnet air goes out under the car.
It would be a pity to inflict such duscts anyway to suh a lovely old duchess of a car.    I know nothing of them, but looking at pics of them, is there a side panel to the bonnet that could be left out?
See this series on a Renown restoration: http://powerandperformance.co.uk/rod-custom/renown/ ?

Ah! Again!  It's part of a classic fold-up bonnet. See: http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=28104
Construct a temporary replacement that imcluds the top sections and a side section that leaves a big, ventilating gap?

I'd concentrate on improving heat loss via the water rad.   In order of cost: Water-wetter?   Electric water pump to aid the mechanical?  Recore the rad with extra ranks of tubes?

JOhn

[Saltddirk]

John,

Leaving the side panels off would be rather drastic and i'm not sure if I want to go there (think)

an electrical water pump would also be an option, actually I have incorporated the wiring for one in the new loom just in case.

I also have a "pressure tank" (or however you want to call this) to be installed on the overflow of the radiator so you can use a modern day radiator cap and get the system under pressure to prevent boiling and hot (steam) spots. This also increases the cooling water capacity and with the use of either Water wetter or Evans waterless coolant you should be fine. Again finding a good spot for it is the issue. it needs to be the highest point in your cooling system and with an vertical upright radiator that come close to the bonnet it needs to go to the back, where the bonnet is slightly higher.

there is one more easy modification I will make. I have bought a plastic 7 blade fan from a TR4 to replace the original 4 blade inefficient metal one. but again this will only aid while in slow traffic as once underway the airflow should be great enough.

D

[Goody]

You might think about this:  A friend who owns a MGA had cooling problems.  After adding elc  fan and the like he tried something called "Water "Weter".  This helped a lot.  Then he tried a different viscosty oil.  Don't remember but it was something like, old 10W30 to new 5W20 and the car ran much cooler.   I don't know if "Water Weter" can be found over their.

[ferny]

You can get it over here but I can't see it helping any more than using the correct anti-freeze. It's meant to break down the surface tension of the water, but I can't see that really helping and no test show it to make a great deal of difference. The thermostat and radiator should be controlling and maintaining the temperature of the cooling system anyway and if they're not, then something isn't working properly.


I use a wetting agent (proper one for photography) in photography when washing and it does indeed break down the surface tension and stops drying marks. In that instance it's needed and makes a real difference.

Dirk - I would have thought any kind of shroud or protection which actually stops debris from hitting the cooler would also do the same to air passing through it. Lots of modern cars have oil coolers fitted in exposed areas at the front of the car, which I hate and always advice fitting mesh to with a nice gap between it and the cooler. They're never fitted behind the wheels though, stones directly flung at it at 70mph, eek!

[Saltddirk]

Pete,
I'm with you on this one.
As I understand it then water wetter prevents the forming of steam and thus hotspots / vapour lock. although if it reduced surface tension then the opposite should be true? (think)(think)

with regards of the protection in front of the cooler I figure that the air will be channeled by the fender towards the cooler (looks a bit like a big air scoop anyway), stones and pebbles probably will bounce off.
Still if |I find a better place then no doubt that it will be moved there, but until the radiator is back on it will be hard to spot a position, as said the steering with all the links droparm and idlers need a lot of space, an the lower part of the radiator is also a no-go because of the starter handle hole.

Once installed we take it to a test drive, as you have seen the state of our roads, from here to Shaun should be good enough to see if no debris hit the thing  ;D

[thescrapman]

Have you thought about using an oil/water inter cooler?

Assuming there is plenty of capacity in the radiator.

Cheers colin

[Saltddirk]

thescrapman wrote:

Have you thought about using an oil/water inter cooler?

Assuming there is plenty of capacity in the radiator.

Cheers colin

Colin,
eeeuuh , no
would not know how to tackle that one, not in such a short time anyway.

I have been brainstorming with some Roadster owners, they assure me that there is no issue in having the radiator at the top of the front wing, behind the wheel, albeit with a restricted cooling capacity. One of them drives every year from Majorca and back and had no issues what so ever.
They also claim that there is room enough for it to sit behind the Grille in front of the radiator, maybe that will be the way to go.

Dirk

[JohnD]

Silverback had an oil/water cooler.
It was a:
A/Plumbing job - lots of Samco (?) hose and connectors to connect both water and oil to the same unit.
B/ Mounting job.  The Laminova cooler I used had no mounting brackets at all!
And it's quite heavy when full!
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/oil-coolers-accessories/mocal-laminova-oil-cooler-water-cooled

Inside the top of the wing?  On top of the tyre?
The perhaps with a stone deflector behind the cooler - most stones will leave the tyre at a tangent between bottom and halfway up the rear of the tyre - but it will still get very mucky up there which will make regular pressure washer cleaning a must.

John