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Missed the re-starts


Andy Flexney

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Indeed.
I would also add suggest ski resorts make good overnight halts. Lots of accommodation, compact so people are all close together, and food/drinking is all pretty close together. Plus there is usually a massive carpark (or coach park) somewhere which is ideal for a re-start.  
But obviously they may not be where the halts are..... (so just a suggestion!)

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The only thing I missed about not having a daily start point was that there were cars and more to the point, other club members that I didn't even know were on the run until I saw them at Rolduc.

Admittedly, I should have looked at the entry list more, but I still wouldn't have seen them on the run. Plus, with this years entry number increased to 85, it was always going to be difficult to get everyone all in one place as well possibly?

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The amount of available time driving has been reduced by at least 11 hours compared to a first night drive through. Therefore planning a re-start, even only once during the event, would cost most teams at least an hour and they simply do not have the time.

I believe either the route has to be shortened, or we go back to the all nighter because it is not possible to comfortably drive 2000 miles in the available 39 hours.

I have calculated the 39 hours as being 3 days @ 10 hours and last day @ 9 hours. which would give an average speed of 51 MPH for the 2000 miles compared to 40 MPH if adding 11 hours of night time driving.

AndyF

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Ah, the distance. We were talking (as you do, over dinner and a beer in italy/france/germany etc) and thought as we start in Europe, would it be possible to use what is currently the day before the start, but everybody (I think, could be wrong) drives down from the UK. So could we use that as a "transit" day and do eg Luxembourg and Belgium, and have the start this year nearer Mulhouse? These are all musings from the dinner table.
After all, the "good" driving is mainly in the mountains etc and not on the motorways. But for us, a fair part of the event is in stopping, having a drink/cake and just taking a bit of time to enjoy where we are. It seems to improve the driving experience too.

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Mixed feelings about the restarts.  I found it quite liberating not to have them and took more liberties with the route than I've done previously.  But also missed the concentrating effects on the "pack".  Biggest entry ever but apart from the ferry queues and Rolduc we never saw more than 5 or 6 cars together and mostly the same ones at that.

Waypoints that have decent capacity and "attractions" like food, fuel, loos etc (eg the one on the San Bernardino pass, also used in 2011) can have a minor gathering effect and are welcome.

The success of the event and it's growing (probably now fully grown?!) scale mean two things
1. Finding gathering places for the whole pack that won't cause excessive "interest" locally is a challenge.  Even picking a locality with sufficient reasonably priced accommodation.
2. Different people want different things from the event.  The looser the format, the easier it is (probably) for all to please themselves.

I have to say that when I look back to first event in 2009 and look at the mileages...... 😲  We did very nearly a thousand miles more that time door to door  .  Two nights on the road.  It was a monster......

Nick

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We didn't miss any of them, they were all outside our hotels.

We already knew the suggested route was going to be impossible by catering for the desire to have stops every night, which is why went for a different approach.

You can never hope to squeeze the same distance into days reduced by 14 hours of driving every day.

So we go back to at least 1 and preferably 2 overnight drives as per 2005 and everyone has an easy time.

Or you add an extra day, or even better 2 extra days, for the same result.

Real shame the Motorail to Italy has been stopped, that would have solved lots of problems

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Quoted from cliftyhanger
Ah, the distance. We were talking (as you do, over dinner and a beer in italy/france/germany etc) and thought as we start in Europe, would it be possible to use what is currently the day before the start, but everybody (I think, could be wrong) drives down from the UK. So could we use that as a "transit" day and do eg Luxembourg and Belgium, and have the start this year nearer Mulhouse? These are all musings from the dinner table.
After all, the "good" driving is mainly in the mountains etc and not on the motorways. But for us, a fair part of the event is in stopping, having a drink/cake and just taking a bit of time to enjoy where we are. It seems to improve the driving experience too.


As a first time competer I timidly second what Clive said, the best driving is in the southern parts and we would not have been angry for an extra day of driving there. Surely it would widen the gap between 10CR and RBRR and make it less hardcore, but this is for us a different event, with a different aim and spirit. We too missed a bit of the chin wag with other club members or just time to sit around and enjoy.
We drove the complete route, including all passes in our spit and had a tough time in keeping up the time table. At Rolduc I heard of several teams who had made choices and skipped part of the routes. Stelvio and Tsimmeljoch are fabulous but the views in the dolomites and the smaller passes just south of Merano are just breath taking and I would not have wanted to miss any of them.

D

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Quoted from cliftyhanger
Ah, the distance. We were talking (as you do, over dinner and a beer in italy/france/germany etc) and thought as we start in Europe, would it be possible to use what is currently the day before the start, but everybody (I think, could be wrong) drives down from the UK. So could we use that as a "transit" day and do eg Luxembourg and Belgium, and have the start this year nearer Mulhouse? These are all musings from the dinner table.
After all, the "good" driving is mainly in the mountains etc and not on the motorways. But for us, a fair part of the event is in stopping, having a drink/cake and just taking a bit of time to enjoy where we are. It seems to improve the driving experience too.


Im with Clive on this.

The "easy" solution would seem to be start the trip further south into europe.

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Quoted from roger keys


Im with Clive on this.

The "easy" solution would seem to be start the trip further south into europe.


One of the questions that has to be answered is do you want a fast and lean sprint around 10 countries or do you want a leisurely drive over 5 or more days?

I know we keep going on about this but in 2003 we set off from The Plough on Friday afternoon, were in Nice for Saturday evening and after a swim in the Med on Sunday morning we were back at The Plough on Monday evening. In fact we were back in Yorkshire before closing time.

Over the years it developed to what it is today; the amount of time taken for the run has doubling to 6 days. This year I needed to take 4 days holiday so decided to take the full week off and did a Pre-10CR run starting the Saturday before.

If people have time, money and permission to be taking a full week off we could do much more with the 10CR and even look at visiting 10 different countries than we have previously. This would perhaps move the 10CR more into a European tour (similar to the Irish tour) rather than a mad dash over some passes.

Perhaps we need to discuss what we all want from future 10CRs!

AndyF

P.S. A route for Scandinavia and the Baltics is already prepared 😉


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Biggest issue with the 10CR is the weak English pound!

One of the great things about the 10CR is that its scope can be changed, contrasts well with the fairly rigid format of the RBRR.

As one of the original people to have taken part in 2003, which by the way, was a superb but quite loose event, I like the looseness of the current event.

I did not drive the Stelvio as its too chuffing busy with either motorbikes, pushbikes, caravans or supercars. I thought the 2015 event's route was spot on, particularly enjoyed Slovenia. I would love to visit some more of the eastern roads: Slovenia, Czechia, Hungary, Slovakia etc and get away from the busy Western Europe roads.

I agree about the re-starts, think these should be incorporated again.

After much thought, I will be on the 2019 event again, if I get a place.

By the way, no one congratulated Ellis and Theo in managing to fit all the reservists into the event, well done.

I look forward to reading the plans for the 2019 event when they are published.


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Hi Tim's Right,
Thank you the organizing team to get us all a spot in the grid, a bed to sleep in and all the well thought out routes.

But also big thanks to Howard who translated the roadbook into GPX files that were spot on!
We have used them to good effect and it made the navigation a lot easier, even when Natasha who lives in my satnav and was specially hired because she could read a gpx file did not know where Italy was, and if she did did not think they had invented roads yet. We just went by the green line....

Cheerz
D

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Just a thought-bit of a bonkers one mind..

The event has grown massively and been a success every time in what ever "format" mainly thanks to the hard work of all the volunteers that make it happen..

I think there could be scope for a two tier event?

IE - 5 day drive style event starting deep into the continent and a leaner "dash to  the finish" style event ? that has the overnight drives and graveyard sleepovers?

Would need more volunteers etc - the dashers could aim to meet the cruisers for a re-start somewhere on the route then again at the finish for a pie and pint?

One of  my favorite events was the 2009 - loved the night drive with the group power kip in the grave yard ..everyone waking up with the sun rise wiping the EP90 off the hands, camp stove brew ups -real atmosphere
Anyway just thoughts!

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I hope my comments are not seen to be negative. We really enjoyed the event, and indeed much thanks to the organising team.
Andy, re the "fast and lean" v "leisurely drive" I think we need a bit of the latter in there. And as it stands the event effectively was Tuesday to Sunday. I can't imagine anybody drove from home in the UK on the Wednesday morning. And last time, I think everybody chose to have a bed for the night rather than the optional overnight? A sign that we are all getting older (I feel much older at the moment) and maybe enjoy the contrast the the RBRR?

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Quoted from cliftyhanger
I hope my comments are not seen to be negative.


not in the slightest

Quoted from cliftyhanger
. And as it stands the event effectively was Tuesday to Sunday.


Exacty, we have nearly taken a full week so why not go the 1 day more and develop the 10CR into a 12CR or a 13CR by including some of the roads in Eastern Europe. Apparently the roads in Slovenia were quite exciting and I am sure there are more to be explored.

The idea of 2 versions did not really work the last time it was offered. A second all nighter was perhaps the wrong concept. I only know of 1 team that did that at the time, all the rest chose to have an extra night in a half decent bed.

But if we were to officially start on the Tuesday in Mulhouse it would give teams an excuse to arrive late on Sunday or early on Monday and visit the museum before the start on Tuesday. Starting from that location on Tuesday would make it possible to visit Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia as well as the Czech Republic, Poland and all the other the usual suspects.

Of course I am presuming that UK citizens will still be able to travel freely in Europe in 2019 and the pound has not dropped under 1 Euro 😉

Please keep your thoughts and ideas coming, not that anyone will take any notice but it is good to get them in the open 😉

AndyF

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Quoted from Andy Flexney


not in the slightest


The idea of 2 versions did not really work the last time it was offered. A second all nighter was perhaps the wrong concept. I only know of 1 team that did that at the time, all the rest chose to have an extra night in a half decent bed.

AndyF


I think that statement says all you need to know about where the majority want to be with this event. OK, that may take on it, but its pretty telling.

That said, ive only done the last 2 so have a lot les experience than others of these events.

But, fundamentally, the good roads are further south and east in europe. Getting there is dull. One french motorway is much the same as the next. For me more time on the fun roads is what i really want. But ideally not a non stop 15 hours a day.

So count me in for stretching the number of days

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A bit OT but.
We have just come back from a trip down thru the alps to Italy (Modena) and back (sort of "not a 10CR trip"..).
Anyway what struck me was how much traffic there was and how many delays, traffic and roadworks,  on the Germany, Italian and Austrian motorways. I don't remember it being this bad before. Also once you were off the motorways in Germany (and lesser existent, Italy and Austria) the traffic calming and speed cameras seems more common than I remember from previous trips.
All of which slows down your progress and how many miles you can easily do each day....

mike

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Quoted from mpbarrett
A bit OT but.
We have just come back from a trip down thru the alps to Italy (Modena) and back (sort of "not a 10CR trip"..).
Anyway what struck me was how much traffic there was and how many delays, traffic and roadworks,  on the Germany, Italian and Austrian motorways. I don't remember it being this bad before. Also once you were off the motorways in Germany (and lesser existent, Italy and Austria) the traffic calming and speed cameras seems more common than I remember from previous trips.
All of which slows down your progress and how many miles you can easily do each day....

mike


Quite true in our experience also.  Also a fair amount of traffic on many of the passes.  We were spared a Saturday in the Alps this time tough - which I remember as being quite bad, especially for mad bikers.....

Traffic calming was definitely increased and I noted that almost every village seemed to have flashing speed signs.  I particularly noticed this as we are trying to get one for our village and the Highways people tell us they won't fund one because they are useless..... seems they don't agree in Europe!

Myself, I've missed the inclusion of rural French routes in the last couple of events.  There are so many great roads in France.  Ok, the peage HAS to be avoided these days due to piss-take pricing, but in most cases this is no great hardship.  Extensive use of France may make it harder to get 10 Countries in (though we've managed in the past) but I don't actually care about the country count - for me it's about the roads and landscapes.  Accommodation is cheap and plentiful in France too.

Nick

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Some interesting thoughts in how the event should evolve. Most important thing to bear in mind though is the fact that in the past 15 years traffic in the Alps has increased dramatically.
This together with roadworks (repairing roads not up to the amount of traffic) and ever more speed cameras (speeding super cars and bikes) will reduce average speed.

Another thing to bear in mind is the ever looming chance of the high passes being closed for a day or more due to snow fall.
From that point of view the lower areas (like the Ballons des Vosges (F), various parts of Germany) might be a better bet.
Not as much tourist traffic and (i.m.h.o.) very good, maybe even better driving roads. Though one day of Alpine passes should be part ...

  

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I've missed the last 2 10CRs and find it interesting about the comments about the increase in traffic, traffic calming and roadworks.

Personally, I'm not a fan of lots of mountain passes. 1 or 2 are fun, but after that I start to find them stressful, especially when tired and battling the traffic in an and increasingly sooty PI car. In 2011 I'd certainly had enough of them by the end.

Also give the busier places a miss. Nice, Monaco etc. Good to say you've been, but the novelty soon wears thin when you've slogged through standstill traffic for 2 hours to get there.

Quieter alternative roads would be good, we did some of the central forest roads in Germany a couple of years for a friends birthday (albeit in a modern) and they were scenic and a good way to munch up the miles without the need for motorways.

I know it's difficult to please everyone but individuals can always mod the route to suit themselves. From what I've read, it seems a shame that this year the grouping of the cars was lost somewhat, as others have said those overnight stops by graveyards and surprise airports are what makes it memorable.

If it's able to run in 2019, Brexit permitting, then I do hope to enter again.  

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