safeguarding the future of the RBRR

[chunky63]

I shared the marshalling at Okehampton and discussed tiredness with lots if the teams.

May i make a suggestion to include another check point in the tiring stretches. In between WZL and Okehampton its a rather tedious M5-A30 journey in the middle of the night, a brief stop at Exeter services might help. There might be other places as well.

Cheers
Jon

[Roger Keys]

Quoted from chunky63

I shared the marshalling at Okehampton and discussed tiredness with lots if the teams.

May i make a suggestion to include another check point in the tiring stretches. In between WZL and Okehampton its a rather tedious M5-A30 journey in the middle of the night, a brief stop at Exeter services might help. There might be other places as well.

Cheers
Jon

Another check point is more stuff for Tim and friends to organise. And more marshalls. In the middle of the night.

Im more than capable of deciding to stop at a sevices, or even a lay by which we did 3 times on the run down to Lands end.

At the risk of sounding like an old git, the way it used to be with NO stops between Gordano and Lands end, often allowed an early arrival at Lands end and if so, a good couple of hours of sleep in a stationary car. I cant speak for others but i found this really useful. Of course dense fog on the M5 puts paid to that........................ Cant remember the year, but that was no fun!

[Wilfrid]

Have to agree with you Roger, those were the days!  Also agree about that foggy year - no fun, can't remember the year either but will try and research it!

[RobPearce]

I recall 1994 as being quite foggy down there. Not fun but it was my first RBRR so I had no point of reference.

[ferny]

My first in 2008 wasn't overly pleasant!

[Alex]

I think your right pete, I think the fog was in 08

[willows40]

Definitely foggy in 2008, my first RBRR pouring with rain all the way down from Scotland and then thick fog down to lands end

[RobPearce]

Ah, yes, I do remember 2008 being bad for fog. The route had a wiggly bit before Land's End on which the Toledo nearly failed to achieve a hill start in an absolute pea-souper. That's the only bit of the fog I noticed, though, as I'd been asleep for that stretch.

[thescrapman]

Quoted from roger keys

At the risk of sounding like an old git, the way it used to be with NO stops between Gordano and Lands end, often allowed an early arrival at Lands end !

I believe there was also some calculations done of average speeds based on the signing in times on that stretch.

[Nick Jones]

Quoted from ferny

My first in 2008 wasn't overly pleasant!

Likewise.  First event and also my last.  Was raining stair-rods most of the way from Gordano then horribly foggy at the end when we had about half a working eyeball between us.  We were also trying to follow the somewhat tortuous exact route when we should have just gone straight to LE.  Live and learn.

In good conditions and middle of night it is rather easy to set some daft average speeds on that stretch of road.

Nick

[Tim Bancroft]

Only 70 miles from W'zoyland to Okehampton, cannot see the point of another Control in between.

As Roger states, if tired at this point pull over and have a 10 min sleep.

Been interesting reading comments received about W'zoyland, some have disliked it, some have loved it. Me, I am all for any that are not a motorway service area.

[Alex]

W'zoyland
I thought it was great and had an old school type feel.....how I'd imagine a pit stop on a proper night rally if that makes sense?
Shame no toilets for the ladies but you can't have everything and I know the ladies in our particular group were aware of this beforehand.

[brianthesnail96]

I thought Wzl (Westonzoidberg as it became known in our car, for no wholly adequate reason) was great, a bit surreal but felt much more of an adventure than blummin' Gordano.

[ferny]

I thought it was rather nice there as well. Toilets would have been useful as most of the nuts and fruit in my car had been consumed at this point and a weight saving exercise was close to the front of my mind.

An impossibility but something which would be lovely at that point and a great way to freshen up would be a portable shower. Time constraints, logistics and finances would rule it out I assume, but it'd be pretty bloody amazing.

[RobPearce]

I was also quite happy with WZL - and the stretch from there to Okehampton was definitely not too long. Okehampton to LE was where we did the unscheduled driver swap, but we hadn't swapped at Okehampton (Andrew had driven most of Wales so he deserved a longer rest).

[mikew]

I quite like WZL very atmospheric - great bacon butty - I know there were a few moans about the drive through the town - ignore them - what's a few extra miles, far far better than M5 services, to be honest a few more stops like WZL wouldn't go amiss, a least our cars weren't surrounded by Moderns

Pimperne - I had my best drive ever to this stop - didn't mind it at all this time - don't know why, but it worked well this year, but we did get out of Badgers Holt early, which may have made all the difference

Knebworth was good, and worth the extra money in my view

In fact all the changes were very good and much enhanced the RBRR, except the queuing at Blythe - that was caused by all the cars exiting onto the A1 at Knebworth at the same time - more marshalls at Blythe perhaps - OR a WZL type stop perhaps

A1 had roadworks as per previous years - just in a different place, and as usual the diversion was no issue

[thescrapman]

Quoted from Alex

W'zoyland
I thought it was great and had an old school type feel.....how I'd imagine a pit stop on a proper night rally if that makes sense?
Shame no toilets for the ladies but you can't have everything and I know the ladies in our particular group were aware of this beforehand.

I sucked a bit when you were in the last few cars going round and everyone had sodded off to LE 2 hours earlier.

But the cuppa and bacon sarnie was good!

Seemed to take ages to get to off the M5, and even longer to get back to it.

I reckon the battered old skip was well watered by the end of the night, very boggy by the time we got there...

[Stuart Wilson]

No major complaints from me on any of the control stops other than Sugar Loaf not big enough to hold cars until due time, same at Carter Bar. But rest spot on, yes Blyth was a touch busy but seemed to cope

[Jason]

I think the debate is healthy, we do take notice every time it comes and try and keep a balance between the event being a challenge and being too easy. I've often said that the RBRR is a difficult endeavor, both for the car and crew - it is supposed to be tough. We expect failures, I have experienced that, in fact most of the organising team have. We don't want it to be life or death tough but we don't want it to be a Sunday drive with champers and 3 course meals, that's another event entirely.
I encourage the debate but I also encourage tolerance, there are those who walk amongst us who collect train numbers and Pokemon cards (real and virtual) there are those who like to dangle from elastic bands off bridges or jump out of aeroplanes or off mountains - there's room for them all and a little tolerance is good, no matter how mad they appear.
If there are members who don't want to do the RBRR but would like to create some alternative then I know that Tim and the RBRR team or Ellis and the 10CR team would only be too pleased to chat it through and offer help and guidance (none would probably want to get involved but advice we offer freely) just because I don't want to meander through the Cotswolds between tea shops and market towns doesn't mean that I don't respect others wishes to do that. Quite the opposite, as a Club we like to see members out and about in club cars as much as possible.
The event will always evolve but slowly, and in a considered way, whilst trying to retain the challenge and sense of achievement we all get from driving round in a circle for 2 days in an obsolete car with smelly mates(think)

[Tim Bancroft]

Blimey, wordy but so true!

As for smelly mates.....ain't you the source?

[Shed 1969]

Obsolete mates and smelly cars?

[AAC567X]

<Twopenn'orth>

I haven't done the RBRR (yet) but for 10 winters I used to regularly drive coaches between Calais and the alpine ski resorts.
Legally, the most a two driver team in a PCV can drive is 10 hours each during a 21 hour period. They must then have 9 hours rest.
Although the maximum continuous driving period is 4½ hours, I found that 2½ on / 2½ off (x4) with a shared 1 hour meal break after 2 turns gave the best compromise for not getting over-tired behind the wheel and having a sound sleep in the crew seat.
I never arrived in Austria/Switzerland/Italy too tired to function, indeed often was last to bed on the first night in the hotel.
The above regulations do not apply to private vehicles, but obviously provide good guidance to build on.
I would suggest that the above pattern, but with 2 hour breaks after each 10 hours, could provide sufficient rest for experienced drivers to safely complete 48 hours. As always, personal circumstances and preferences will vary.

With regard to the issue of some teams having an extra 500/600 miles to complete every year, how about moving the start point along by one checkpoint every time the event occurs?

<Twopenn'orth>

[Dannyb]

Quoted from AAC567X

<Twopenn'orth>

With regard to the issue of some teams having an extra 500/600 miles to complete every year, how about moving the start point along by one checkpoint every time the event occurs?

<Twopenn'orth>

The only Start point suitable is the Start. All the other control stops are not suitable as a start and finish.

[JohnD]

Twopennorth,
Most interested in your experience, as I've just been studying "drivers' hours" in Logistics.
I was a bit surprised to find out about "double manning/multimanning", but long distance trips would be much more fragmented otherwise.

I know that 'daily rest' may be taken in the cab - that's why many trucks have a bunk compartment, but does the driver on a break have a sleep somewhere?
Do your long distance coaches have bunks for the off-duty driver?  

JOhn

[ferny]

Quoted from AAC567X

With regard to the issue of some teams having an extra 500/600 miles to complete every year, how about moving the start point along by one checkpoint every time the event occurs?

It's a good idea. The problem lays with needing to be at John O'Groats and Lands End for breakfasts. The reasons for being there at those times are a mixture of tradition and helping control the route. If you stager the start locations but continue to start the event at 6pm, you'll alter the times you're driving on some roads. That impacts both the average speed and safety on the single track roads around the lochs in Scotland and going through Dartmoor. Or, you could stager the start times. That adds another safety element as if you need to start at 3am somewhere you're doing so knowing most of the crews won't be rested at the start, will have to stay somewhere overnight and make themselves busy all day or pay for a hotel room they'll only use for an hour. Plus, no-one would want to start at those times.