Driveshaft UJ noise cure - quick, easy, cheap.

[Jezmond]

I'm feeling optimistic that I've finally eliminated the nasty knocking noises from my Herald Coupe's rear end. In the end the solution was easy, quick and very cheap and didn't involve removing the drive shaft.
Armed with a good pair of circlip pliers and a handful of oversize UJ circlips - both .0615 and .0645 (for a couple of quid from Bill at Rarebits) I put her on axle stands and shimmied underneath to take a look at the offending UJ. Having read Bill's hints and tips, I knew which UJ was causing the knocking.
One opposing pair of circlips was slightly lose, I could see that they had moved against the cup - not much but and indication they weren't tight enough, and I'd read in Bill's hints that they need to be tight. I removed the circlip and was able to get a .0615 in straight away.
I tried the .0645s to no avail but wondered that if I gently tapped the cup in a bit, they might fit. Sure enough they did.
I was left wondering if I'd done the right thing, but I knew that I'd only tapped the cups gently so couldn't really have damaged anything. And besides, it was done now.
A quick test revealed the dammed tick tick tick on overrun on left hand corners had gone. I refused to believe it as I've suffered with this for more years than I care to remember, having replaced the whole drivetrain from the gearbox backward (including recon replacement driveshafts from a very reputable Triumph trader)
I've had a couple of runs since and the noise really has gone, our run to the Goodwood Revival at the weekend will provide final confirmation but I'm optimistic.
My experience concurs that driveshaft UJs need to be tight. The solution is cheap, easy and quick - thanks to Bill at Rarebits.

Jez

[Pete Lewis]

we have done exactly the same in the past and agree its easy, just make sure the grove is clean and tap the clip fully home , you dont want one to pop out .  

so you can now join the big clip antiknock brigade

and guess you wont be the first to replace everything twice to no avail,, tis all part of the fun
    Pete

[Doug Paterson]

peterhlewis wrote:

you dont want one to pop out .  

Correct you don't  ;D

Learned the hard way myself the importance of checking and triple checking the replacement clip has seated fully.

Embarrassingly mine popped out just a couple of miles from Chic Doig's garage on a trip to buy some parts - cue some well deserved sarcasm.

[Zendervision]

Replacing a driveshaft UJ is one of the least pleasant jobs I've ever done on my car. Mix a horrible dirty job with a generous dose of inexperience and the result is a Herald which can be driven on a motorcycle licence and a shattered owner sitting in a pile of mangled sockets and UJ roller bearings at 11pm dreaming about anything modern and FWD.

Stopped the clicking though :)

[Bainzy]

So knocking doesn't necessarily mean the UJ is on its way out? I've got one knocking that the previous owner replaced fairly recently...

[Jezmond]

Absolutely, a brand new UJ will click without the appropriate size circlips. The difference in thickness is tiny but makes all the difference. For the cost of a few pennies for thicker circlips it's got to be worth a try.  

[Doug Paterson]

Agreed.  I always keep 4 each of the two thicker sizes in the garage.  Means I can get it right first time these days.  :)

[Antonnick]

This is an old thread but thanks to the search may be the answer to the "clicking" sound my 13/60 Herald Cabrio has. All the rear UJs are new because I replaced the standard diff with a 3,7 version and the flanges are different. I had no idea that circlips are in different sizes but now i can check to see if that is really the problem.

Thankyou club T

[glang]

I think as an alternative you can also cut discs out of thin metal sheet and use those with the existing circlips to ensure the UJ caps cant move back and forth...

[Kevin R]

9 hours ago, glang said:

I think as an alternative you can also cut discs out of thin metal sheet and use those with the existing circlips to ensure the UJ caps cant move back and forth...

I have also seen this mentioned using the sheet metal from an empty coke can to pack the circlip.

[DVD3500]

I love tips like these!

[Wendy Dawes]

On 12/09/2011 at 16:33, Pete Lewis said:

we have done exactly the same in the past and agree its easy, just make sure the grove is clean and tap the clip fully home , you dont want one to pop out .  

so you can now join the big clip antiknock brigade

and guess you wont be the first to replace everything twice to no avail,, tis all part of the fun
    Pete

I renamed my herald ‘two times Mabel’  done nearly everything twice lol 

[glang]

So twice the fun!🥴

[Antonnick]

Back from holiday this week so I jacked up the car on the scissor lift and inspected the UJs - turned the wheels by hand as quickly as I could. All seems fine. 

It occured to me, how do you tell if the UJs are moving in themselves in order to decide if a thicker circlip is needed? At the moment I am wondering about the diff , which has a certain amount of backlash which may also cause the noise?

[glang]

well typically they make a clicking sound - you can hear it if you drive slowly alongside a wall. Or sometimes the end of the problematic UJ cap is shiney as its rotating in its yoke and rubs against the circlip. If you have a G clamp and suitable size spacers (sockets, nuts etc) you might be able to compress two opposite caps and then with a feeler gauge see if theres a gap between one or both caps to circlips...

Diffs should have some backlash and might make a clonk on take up or a whine when driving but not usually clicking.

[Antonnick]

All three UJs are very new - I am still not sure whether the clicking is from the half shafts or the propshaft. I say this because the clicking seems to me to be quicker than the wheels rotate but am not 100% sure. I remember when the new diff was installed, it took quite a bit of pressure to fit the propshaft as it seemed too long. I had to lever the diff rearwards in order to fit the propshaft.  It is the straps type and they are now bent back in usage I notice. I am wondering whether there is a lot of pressure on the UJ and that is why something has perhaps happened? Cannot see any visible signs of any problem though - everything looks new. 

But as mentioned before, not at all certain that this is the case. the question is how to localise the noise? I have tried spinning the wheels with the car on the ramp and also in second gear with the motor running - even underneath the car, I hear nothing. Probably only when the wheels are under load and not lowered.  

A bit frustrating really.

If I do need thicker Circlips - where can I get them from? Imperial sizes would be difficult to get here

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Antonnick

[glang]

Dont know anything about the strap type props but its not a good idea to transmit axial thrust to the gearbox or diff bearings...

I think this noise can appear after installing new UJs as the cups are much freer to move than the originals which were probably stuck in place!

To identify the noise how about driving with a passenger and both windows down alongside a wall and then back the other way. The sound bounces of the wall and might help to narrow down which side it is or the prop if its the same?

The original poster found a source of various thickness circlips and Canleys do them as well or alternatively you can cut out spacer discs from coke cans👍

[RobPearce]

I think the strap type propshaft should be treated much as the solid ones - you make it fit by loosening the engine and gearbox mounts and sliding the engine forward or back as needed. A hoist is probably needed to take the weight while you do it.

[Antonnick]

Thankyou to you both! The propshaft has now been in position for ca. 4000km. 

Today I put the car on the lift and had a good listen underneath trying to locate the noise. I can hear it now when the wheels are turned by hand . My neighbour helped to do this. It is not so easy to locate the source as the diff tends to clonk as well. Am tending towards the UJ at the diff /propshaft because the noise is still there when one wheel is isolated. 

I have ordered  some thin washers of 0,1; 0,2 and 0,5 mm available as 22mm dia ( I measured the UJ opening at 23mm) . On the German forum it was suggested that any gap between the circlip and the cap can be attempted to measure with feeler gauges. This i must also try but before using a G clamp to perhaps push the cups inwards. 

Have another go tomorrow

[Antonnick]

Measured with feeler gauges and certainly there were gaps so with the help of the washers the circlips were replaced. Have ruled out the propshaft now - with the car in gear on the lift , the propshaft cannot move but in turning by hand the noise did not go away. With high hopes, went on a long test run after putting in the washers, but no change however, the noise is still there, perhaps worse than before. ....

Certainly the clonk-clonk is only present on left turns. I think I will remove a brake drum and have a look . 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Antonnick

[Antonnick]

Failed....................fitted 0,2mm 24mm dia washer to all the UJs - no difference to the clonk-clonk which is coming from somewhere behind me as I drive but where?

Edited June 9, 2022 by Antonnick

[glang]

Yes unfortunately UJs is a tick tick or click click not a clonk clonk. I believe diffs can make a clonk clonk but have no idea how they can do it without a major failure happening pretty quickly...

[Antonnick]

click or clonk? My noise is similar to this YT Video

 

[glang]

hmmm somewhere between the two and, although Ive never heard UJ end play from that close up, it doesnt sound like thats the problem to me. Its sounds worse than that as if the UJ is in a bad way and has a lot of rotational play but I guess youve discounted that. Otherwise something loose or a bearing (wheel or diff) thats pretty bad?

[Antonnick]

It really should not be bad as I renovated the half shafts ( but not the wheel bearings)  and installed new UJs all round. The diff is second hand, having bought a 3,63 to replace the 4,11  which of course, needed brand new flange yokes on the half shafts to match. Since being installed, it has done about 6400km without a sound. It is possible that I managed to botch the needle bearings when installing the UJs at the time. I am quite talented at botching! 

I will try to ask the garage man for his opinion. I do not mind what it is that needs doing, whether new UJs or indeed an exchange diff but it is knowing what the culprit is, that is the problem.