GT6 MK2 1969 restoration

[BrendanD]

I have a Spitfire 1500 and a GT6 for that very reason.
One car on the road and one in storage/restoration = one car ;)

[Longstrider]

Its been a while and to be honest i have been sorely tempted to sell and purchase a fhc TR7 thats in the road, however i Went into the garage today and decided to remove the Webasto sunroof and begin the roof rub down.

Here are some pics as you can see from the second pic half is now down to bare metal. So that makes the main section of the bonnet and half the roof back to bare metal. Plan is to get the roof fully striped back to the lights before the weekends out.

Now I have removed the webasto I am considering returning the roof to full steel as it came out of the factory. has anyone undertaken this? Is it a case of replacing the full roof section or could a panel section be welded in. Alternatively I install a new webasto.

[LouisW]

Looking good! Progress is always good to see  :) What was wrong with your webasto roof? I've always liked the idea of one and putting it onto the hardtop of the spit. Would you be willing to let it go if its in okay condition?
Regards,
Louis.

[GT6Craig]

Quote:

Now I have removed the webasto I am considering returning the roof to full steel as it came out of the factory. has anyone undertaken this? Is it a case of replacing the full roof section or could a panel section be welded in. Alternatively I install a new webasto.

I cut up an old roof and filled in an awful 80's sunroof on mine.

Horrible job as the roof being such a big sheet of steel, it was nearly impossible to stop it warping and pulling.

I used a joggler to put a lip in the roof opening and tacked, then seam welded in a piece cut from the old roof. A skim of filler and MANY hours of sanding, guide coating, and more sanding later you would never tell it was ever there.

I would keep the period Webasto if I was you. Too much of a job and I will not be tackling it again...

[Nick Moore]

184 wrote:

I would keep the period Webasto if I was you. Too much of a job and I will not be tackling it again...

Ditto. I fitted a Webasto sunroof to my Herald, and it transformed the car. And given the amount of heat most GT6s transfer to the cabin, any extra ventilation is welcome!

(And yes, I know the heat can be kept out, more or less. But folding sunroofs are cool, OK?)

[Tim Bancroft]

Longstrider,

New ones are expensive. Some people have had good results getting them restored by car upholstery restorers. I had mine done in the early 90s and still in good fettle. Boat upholstery companies have also been know to re-cover.

[John Bonnett]

8112 wrote:

Its been a while and to be honest i have been sorely tempted to sell and purchase a fhc TR7 thats in the road, however i Went into the garage today and decided to remove the Webasto sunroof and begin the roof rub down.

Here are some pics as you can see from the second pic half is now down to bare metal. So that makes the main section of the bonnet and half the roof back to bare metal. Plan is to get the roof fully striped back to the lights before the weekends out.

Now I have removed the webasto I am considering returning the roof to full steel as it came out of the factory. has anyone undertaken this? Is it a case of replacing the full roof section or could a panel section be welded in. Alternatively I install a new webasto.

If you do decide to weld in a new panel to blank off the aperture, I know that Tavistock Steve has a couple of GT6 roofs at the moment. There are two ways of doing the job. Either fit a complete new roof from the windscreen frame back to the tailgate aperture or cut a section half an inch wider all round than the aperture and joggle an edge (1mm step). You can then push the panel up from  underneath have a flush joint on top and have the strength of double thickness underneath. This should get round the distortion problem when welding.

Do drop me a PM if I can help.

[Hughbert]

I cut the roof of my car to replace it with a non sunroof one I cut the roof at the base of the A/B posts and along the rear wing joint and around the rear panel to keep it. Welded the replacement roof which was cut off the same as my old one at the  a/b posts to my original body and along the rear wing joint and welded around the rear panel all the  joints were as where the factory panels would have been welded in ie where the rer wing meets the roof panel. I could not get original pictures being held to ransom at the moment  :-/ but found a few on he web and did a rough edit .

[Longstrider]

Thank you all for the feedback. I have been back out to the garage this morning and I have to say that I am pretty pleased with the progress made yesterday. There is as always a lot to consider, but no need to make a decision at the moment. The sunroof vinyl at the rear of the sunroof was hard and cracked and was damaged on removal, the plate underneath is badly rusted. So if I keep the sunroof I would need to find someone to replace the vinyl and would need to make a new rear plate. The frame around the roof edge is in  perfect condition.

So will hang in to the roof and consider my options.

In the meantime I will continue to rub down to bare metal the rest of the car and hopefully soon put it into red oxide primer.
Should I be concerned with minimum temperature before applying the primer and is there anything I should do to the bare metal before applying?


In order to move the body work repairs on i have to purchase the following, although ebay seems to be light on panels, so may be have to pay the full price and buy from the likes of Rimmers:-(

- new rear near side wing
- the two repair sections for the off side rear wing
- repair section for the front indicators both side, but looking for the mk1 sections. I prefer the round lights and this I feel is more in keeping with the bumper less look that I want.

Lastly thanks for all the support, especially the messages that have kept me going and not taking an easy option.

Happy new year to you all.
Brett

[GT6Craig]

Quote:

In the meantime I will continue to rub down to bare metal the rest of the car and hopefully soon put it into red oxide primer.
Should I be concerned with minimum temperature before applying the primer and is there anything I should do to the bare metal before applying?

Bare metal is good, much less chance of any reactions occurring...be cautious of silicone based products in the area though. That would spell disaster and your paint will 'fish eye' where the microscopic particles of silicone have landed. Just a thought as some of these maintenance sprays and such products contain silicone.

I have personally used red oxide as a primer just recently. I am less than impressed with how the cellulose has adhered to it. It's fine, but I don't think it will be particularly hard wearing.

What paint system are you using? Bare metal needs to be etched...and the temp needs to be ambient, but more importantly, not so damp.

Even with a moisture separator you will get a lot of water in the line this time of year. If primering, I would wait for a very drive day and heat my garage up a little. Not hot, just above 16 degrees or so.  

[Longstrider]

Craig,
Paint is not my area, give me broken mechanicals any day. Lol.
At the moment I have no idea what products I should use to paint her.  The red primer was just a coat to protect the bare metal so surface rust does not form. I really had no choice but to go back to the bare metal the paint was so screwed up and it had been over sprayed in red twice in its life over the factory blue.

What do you mean by etched. as for the silicone I had heard that it can cause paint issues.

I can heat the garage that's not an issue.

What would you recommend the best approach be?

Thanks

Brett

[GT6Craig]

This is a very loose and rough overview of how I did it.

A lot of people have VERY strong opinions when it comes to painting and like everything, there are many ways to do it...

I would start off doing as you are doing, and get back to bare metal. On some panels I didn't and regretted it later when it reacted later on. I had to start all over again.

I wouldn't worry about flash rust just yet..

I would likely choose cellulose paint purely because a) it is cheap b) anyone can have good results with it c) faults can easily be rectified d) it dries quickly e) you dont need an oven.

I would then go around the car and look/feel for any dints or areas which required filling (using wire wool to remove any flash rust, followed by degreasing, then filling).

Once the filling and sanding has been done. I would then use a 1k (cellulose based) etch primer.

This "bites" into the bare steel and provides an excellant surface for the next few coats of "high build primer".

I have had good results with upol cellulose high build, but some others have not.

I would then use a can of any old rattle can paint and lightly dust over the car. I would then wet sand the entire body again with a foam sanding pad and 600 grade sandpaper or similiar. This sands off the rattle can paint at the high spots, and the rattle can paint stays untouched at the low spots...this shows the areas which need a little more filler...

I would repeat the above process until I was sure that the panels were perfectly flat. If I sanded through to bare metal, I would lay on a little more etch primer.

Any pin holes or deep scratches in the filler can be filled with fine finishing filler, or "stopper" as it is more commonly called. Remember it needs to be 1k if you choose cellulose.

Once you are happy that the body is perfect (the top coat will show any imperfection no matter how small), you are ready for the colour coat.

For cellulose, I would be spraying onto a surface that has been finished with 800 grit wet and dry. Start with a light dusting, then progressively add more and more layers. (I laid about 5 on during the first sitting).

I left this for a few weeks, wet sanded again, and applied a few more coats.

Then, after a month or two (when the car has been rebuilt and the paint is properly hard) you can wet sand the whole thing with 1000 grit, polish with Farecla G6, t-cut, then auto glym super resin polish, then wax - all by hand.

This is an excellent website for the amateur.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/spray-painting.htm

The above is assuming you will have a go yourself!

[Longstrider]

Craig,
Thanks of the detail feedback and th link.  Really appreciate it. I feel that this may be a good approach to undertake.
Many thanks
Brett

[LouisW]

Great post Craig, just a couple of things to add that I would reccomend. I would use a zinc phosphate primer if going doing to bare metal as this really grips onto the metal and once cured is VERY strong (used on girders etc industrially). I'd lay this down onto the bare metal before applying filler as if you don't intend on doing this at a particularly fast rate then the bare metal can flash rust, the filler absorb water and leave you with even more problems! The zinc phosphate primer is non porous stuff and I got mine from MJ-SUPPLIES in a large tub for a very good price (to use with a compressor) however you can also buy rattle cans from halfords and the like.
I havn't had any compatibility issues with the zinc phosphate primer and havn't heard of others who have either but laying this zinc phosphate enables you to work at a slower pace as most other primers are porous leading to the bare metal rusting below.

Good luck
Louis.

[Longstrider]

Thanks Louis, appreciate the the tip. ;-)

[GT6Craig]

Fair comments Louis!

It is with mentioning equipment.

You will need a 50 ltr compressor at least. I picked mine up for £40 second hand. Ideally, it would have 10cfm or more but mine doesn’t come close to that so the compressor needs to work a little harder to keep up. To be honest, the nature of spraying cellulose (lots of light coats) gives the compressor time to catch up.

I bought a DeVilbiss FLG5 Finishline HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) off of eBay for £100 and it makes spraying the top coat on so much easier. It only requires 2bar at the gun but does ask for 9-10cfm. As said, mine offers a little less than that but it seems to work ok. The one on eBay comes with a 1.4 nozzle and I have found this fine for cellulose.

To ensure that I have 2bar at the gun (when you pull the trigger the gauge should show 2bar) I bought a small pressure regulator like the below

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/wood_finishing/technique/hvlp_spray/basic_1/wfsgac06aro_spray_gun.jpg

You can lay on the primer with the cheapest gun you can find (i.e. the ones often included in the cheapo air compressor starter sets).

I also used a water trap just after the compressor; it cost about £14 from tool station. It isn’t very efficient, but combined with a dry day it is sufficient to stop most water spraying out of your spray gun! If this does happen, just carry on spraying and when sanding between coats, the water droplet will be sanded out and covered by later coats, or invisible as it’s on top of earlier coats.

Hope this makes sense. A spray job can be done on the cheap.

Compressor = £50-100
Spray gun = £100
Water trap at compressor = £14
Gauge at gun = £10
Various fittings to put it all together = £5
Paint = £100

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CELLULOSE-CAR-PAINT-20-Litre-RE-SPRAY-BS-ROYAL-BLUE-KIT-/370836955787?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item56579ae28b

Anyway, we digress, a small mountain to climb before you get to the painting to stage – but we have all been there...

[Longstrider]

Thanks Craig, more really useful info. Worth knowing now, because EBay is my best friend and I trawl it all the time for the items I need for the 6. A welder is also on the list;-)

The best thing about the last few days, is the renewed enthusiasm I have for the 6, that's thanks to all you guys, offering support and info and myself getting myself back into a cold garage.  It's amazing how warm you get when you see some progress.

8)

[Sheepy]

8112 wrote:

A welder is also on the list
8)

Sorry to thread drift a little, but when you look for one, go for the best you can find/afford.
I began with a little migmate 120, and yes it was ok to begin and would do thin panels, it was not until I bought my 150 that things changed!
I had it serviced once by a welding specialist, the first thing he said, change the torch on it! The standard ones are c**p, so he fitted a euro torch, wow a completely different machine. I had that many years and welded a lot of vehicles, normal panel work, and also thick steel (roll cages, and off road vehicle frames)
I now have a professional welder, and it is such a pleasure to weld with!

Back to the painting, that's some great tips from Craig, I have done some spray jobs in the past, but only a quick blow over when tarting up a car to sell.
My spit will be done to a higher standard when I spray it!

And don't forget we are here to help you along, it's members like you that keep the forum alive, we like to help!  ;)

[Hughbert]

I have to say ebay has been a good source for me and I am amazed with what I can get at a good price also if its only going to be one car you restore do not go mad spending too much cash on totally pro stuff I have used the suff below and it have served me really well. But as sheepy wrote do buy good stuff say mid range price not cheap stuff from China buy off a UK or a home country seller ie Holland if you live there.

Get a top fed gun with a gauge like this one plus a filter gun holder too worth investing in
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PROFESSIONAL-HVLP-AIR-PAINT-SPRAY-GUN-WITH-REGULATOR-1-4mm-2-0mm-NOZZLES-/231128613011?pt=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item35d056c093

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BENCH-OR-WALL-MOUNTED-METAL-GRAVITY-SPRAYGUN-SPRAY-GUN-AND-FILTER-HOLDER-STAND-/261364346770?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item3cda876f92

To apply primer which you might want to also buy this kit which also has a wax oil too dust spray off too
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warrior-Air-5-Piece-Spray-Clean-Kit-/181295172001?pt=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item2a3608c9a1

Top fed gun is a lot better for top coating pot spray great for laying down primer etc.

Just take your time practice and enjoy the fruits of all your own work while saving way more than you have spent on the stuff above ;)

[Sheepy]

Some good points Hugh, but to add, practice and don't let it get you down if you get runs or reactions, it's all part of the learning curve.
Don't try to apply too much in one go!

[LouisW]

I use one of those spray guns from the kit and borrowed a compressor from a neighbour. It's small and doesn't always keep up but it does the job for primer! I used one of these water traps which I fitted onto the compressor rather than onto the gun as its abit easier.  http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/300561118471?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

[Longstrider]

Thanks for all the eBay links, all now in my watch list. I do have a small compressor, but I think it's too small. The welder I want to buy is a Sealey 190 mig gas, with euro torch. They seem to be around the £400 mark excluding gas bottle. :)

[Sheepy]

Yes that sounds a good welder, you can do the thin stuff and go right up to the heavy gauge!
There are plenty of rent free gas suppliers about (another thread about this was started)  :)

[Longstrider]

Well I managed to find a few hours to get down to the garage today. I continued with the removal of the paint and have managed to complete the roof section which I started the other week, I also managed to strip the rear below the tail gate.  I have included some pictures.

[byakk0]

Looking good. I have to do the same to mine before it goes to paint, but I decided to leave the old stuff on until I get to the point of final bodywork and paint just so the good metal underneath remains protected.