Spitfire MKIV Restoration Newbie.

[LouisW]

Hi guys,

I've managed to get the spitfire master cylinders off the brackets and have used the wirebrush on them (in my drill) and taken off as much rust as I could. They're just in some por 15 primer and will be getting sprayed up tomorrow and i'll get some more pictures.

Also found out today that wire drill bits hurt! I caught it on my glove and it still cut me through it! Wont be doing that again any time soon 😀

When i took off the rubber boots however there was loads of white lumpy dust which looked like old grease, is this correct? It was behind the small rubber boot protecting the master brake cylinder. Another thing was that the brake master cylinder is stuck solid, the arm wont move in and out. Does this mean dis-assembly and freeing up... or a whole new cylinder?

I got my freshly painted wiper motor pump fitted aswell and the bulkheads coming along nicely!
I also gave her a wash down due to all the muck coming from grinding and it's looking alot better!  

[Nick Moore]

Louis, it sounds silly, but if I were you, I wouldn't wear gloves while working with wire brushes in a drill or angle grinder. A glove can easily get caught and dragged round, and would do you a serious injury. If the brush hits skin, it'll hurt and could graze off some skin, but it won't grab and drag.

DO wear eye protection though, as those brushes throw off wires at high speed. I often have to pull wires out of my arms after wire brushing. The same bits of wire could blind you without goggles or a visor.

[LouisW]

I'd read somewhere else about the wires flying out so always wear my goggles when using the drill  

It does sound kind of silly but I know what you mean! It wouldn't take much to break a finger or two if you got it stuck in the glove and it span and twisted up. I'll try and resist the urge next time to wear gloves 😀

Also, you wouldn't happen to know about the white stuff in the rubber grommet would you? I'm also wondering whether I should fill it with grease when it's replaced?

[junkuser]

Should not be grease in there.
Sounds as though that master cylinder would be very time consuming to disassemble so probably best to replace with new.

[Nick Moore]

The white powder is probably corroded aluminium and not grease. There shouldn't be any grease in there, except maybe a smear of brake grease between the pushrods and plunger.

[LouisW]

Ahh, alright that's good to know! I'm wondering if it's at all possible to remove the lines from the cylinders without completely draining the whole system? I know i'd have to drain it out of the cylinder itself but that wouldn't be as much hassle as draining the whole system would it? I've never done this before and don't want to really drain it and leave it for a long time in case this damages anything?

[junkuser]

"I'm wondering if it's at all possible to remove the lines from the cylinders without completely draining the whole system?"

Yep.

[Andy_w83]

But you would still need to bleed the system after refilling.

Andy

[Nilfisken]

I would definitely go with a new master cylinder just for peace of mind. Given how long the car must have been standing you really want to replace all the brake fluid anyway so don't try and keep it in the old pipes. Might even be worth getting a brand new set of brake pipes, they are not expensive and if there are two places on the car you shouldn't skip on I would say it's the brakes and the steering.

Good luck!

[LouisW]

I guess you're right but for the price of a rebuild kit I may aswell get one of those and see if that helps! The only thing i'm stuck with at the moment is the lids on the cylinders (being metal) are stuck on tight... I think i'll have to ask my brother to remove them 😀

I have a few pictures for today... A few weeks ago I got working on the bulkhead and this is what I was starting with -

Looks nice eh! 😀

I worked on removing some of the components from the bulkhead (such as wiper motor and the master cylinders and then with the help of a wire brush removed as much rust as I could!

I then applied a coat of killrust (which didn't self level very well in this weather) and then applied some black hammerite.

I ended up with this -

I will be working on the surrounding bulkhead at a later date! Pictures make the rust look worse than it is.  >

Anyways, I got the wiper motor all cleaned and re-greased and then spray painted it in black.



It wasn't looking too bad and after spraying up the mount and using wd40 on the wires to clean them up abit I put it back onto the bulkhead -



This is as far as i've gotten so far on the bulkhead and have just applied a few coats of paint to the master cylinder brackets -

and i'm waiting for my second coat of paint to dry on the bulkhead so i can get these onto it.

Here are my fibreglass valances that i won for 99p

Not bad if i dont say so myself 😀 Can easily sell these on for a decent profit... not that I will be
Hope this is enough pictures for now as i've not really been updating this properly with pictures but i've only been doing small jobs  

Cheers,

Louis

[LouisW]

Had a nice surprise today! I managed to find both the dizzy and HT leads as well as a brand new thermostat

[Sheepy]

Louis,

For the two cylinder caps, before you get rough with big pliers etc, try boiling the kettle, then pouring the hot water onto the caps.
(the different metals expand at different rates) so should hopefully break the seal, but you may find they are corroded beneath the caps.
Then wear some gloves (protect you from the heat) and hopefully they should come loose!

It's a trick I have used to good effect! 🙂

[Anthony]

Quoted from Nick Moore

Louis, it sounds silly, but if I were you, I wouldn't wear gloves while working with wire brushes in a drill or angle grinder. A glove can easily get caught and dragged round, and would do you a serious injury. If the brush hits skin, it'll hurt and could graze off some skin, but it won't grab and drag.

DO wear eye protection though, as those brushes throw off wires at high speed. I often have to pull wires out of my arms after wire brushing. The same bits of wire could blind you without goggles or a visor.

Have you ever been impaled by a wire from a knotted cup brush?

I got one of the wires through the back of my hand once
You don't feel it because it happens so fast
It's like being pierced with a big needle

Not so much fun trying to pull the little bugger back out again though

[Nick Moore]

Many, many times. I stripped my entire GT6 with wire brushes and strippit discs, and sometimes felt like a steel echidna (we don't have hedgehogs here). But minor puncture wounds were preferable to the sort of damage you could expect from getting a glove caught in rotating equipment. Even a loose shirt or overalls are dangerous.

Besides, you get extra man points for sitting on the couch of an evening removing steel wires. "No dear, I never felt a thing".

[LouisW]

Quoted from Sheepy

Louis,

For the two cylinder caps, before you get rough with big pliers etc, try boiling the kettle, then pouring the hot water onto the caps.
(the different metals expand at different rates) so should hopefully break the seal, but you may find they are corroded beneath the caps.
Then wear some gloves (protect you from the heat) and hopefully they should come loose!

It's a trick I have used to good effect! 🙂

So i just pour the water into the top and then dry them out with a hair dryer? I know water and electricity don't go

[LouisW]

I found some horrible rust on my hardtop which is in awkward position here are some pics. Any ideas on how to repair it?   

[LouisW]

Removed the passenger seat, vacuumed it all out and polished up the vinyl. I found that the actual floor pan was really good with a strange bit of water sat underneath the carpet...

no rust though luckily!
However at the back and front of the floor pan it's rusted through -



I've heard these are prime spots for rust but i'm lucky the rest of the floor pans in perfect condition!
I'm just wondering if anyone is in the York area and willing to give me a hand with the welding? I have the sheet metal but no welder and no experience... It's also difficult getting the money together to afford one

If anyone was able to help that'd be great!

[olib007]

Looks like you've been busy so far Louis; good chatting to you on the facebook group. I think your right to be looking for someone to help you do some welding - that's the only way to properly repair that hole in your bulkhead as well as these bits at the back of your floor pans and any other holes. Using filler to fill holes is, in my opinion, a bodge and should be avoided at all costs; having taken apart a spitfire where the previous restorer believed filler to be perfect for jobs like covering rust and holding in seat belt mountings I've seen some scary rust!

Are there any colleges local to you which would run welding courses then you could get saving for a mig welder or borrow one?

I wear welding gloves when using a wire brush on an angle grinder and have touched the moving wire onto the glove by mistake before and it took a fair chunk out of the glove but didn't catch, i wouldn't consider using a wire brush on an angle grinder without gloves but can see the argument for not wearing them. I also wear a full face mask and ear defenders; I know too many people who cannot bear to use an angle grinder after years of working on cars with them has damaged their hearing  

[LouisW]

Quoted from olib007

Looks like you've been busy so far Louis; good chatting to you on the facebook group. I think your right to be looking for someone to help you do some welding - that's the only way to properly repair that hole in your bulkhead as well as these bits at the back of your floor pans and any other holes. Using filler to fill holes is, in my opinion, a bodge and should be avoided at all costs; having taken apart a spitfire where the previous restorer believed filler to be perfect for jobs like covering rust and holding in seat belt mountings I've seen some scary rust!

Are there any colleges local to you which would run welding courses then you could get saving for a mig welder or borrow one?

I wear welding gloves when using a wire brush on an angle grinder and have touched the moving wire onto the glove by mistake before and it took a fair chunk out of the glove but didn't catch, i wouldn't consider using a wire brush on an angle grinder without gloves but can see the argument for not wearing them. I also wear a full face mask and ear defenders; I know too many people who cannot bear to use an angle grinder after years of working on cars with them has damaged their hearing  

I've not really checked at colleges for welding courses but that may be a good option, cheers! I was surprised that all my bolts came out easily and thankfully the mountings were strong! The bolt was a real pain to get out though

I'll ask my neighbour at the weekend and hopefully he'll be able to get hold of a welder and help me out. I may head over to the spitfire meeting next monday just to say hello like you said in the facebook group 🙂

I've used the wire brush since and been fine without any gloves so from now on i'll just do that... Wasn't a bad graze on my hand in the first place but could certainly have been worse And yes, i do need to invest in some ear defenders! One step at a time though as I need to buy loads of things but keep forgetting what i need 😲

Thanks for your help and I also hope that someone around here who knows there way around a welder is able to help me out

Louis.

[LouisW]

Righto, managed to remove the drivers seat and found no rust!! GET IN! 😀 However i know i need new bulkhead plates on both passenger and drivers side so wasn't a total success   .

Also discovered I need a sill end plate, and probably a new sill on the drivers side as it's got a few soft spots along it ... Some pics but nothing too interesting -

Heres the rust on the sill -


And found another spot which I will need to buy a repair patch for! Must be a prime spot for rusting?


To end on a happy note, took a glimpse at the mileage and it was...

Found all the paper work to back this up and i'm very chuffed 😀 Not bad for a 74 plate

And again, if anyone in the York area is willing to help me out with a welder and some knowhow that'd be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Louis.

[LouisW]

Got both the rear wheels off and unseized the brakes Rolled her back down the driveway again Also got both the rear rims painted in white (after going over them with some wire brushes and rust remover) and it looks the business

I have also removed the water pump and when i took it off one of the fins that goes to the inside fell off in my hand (It was badly rusted). However all of the other fins were in perfect condition after a going over with a wire brush... Does this mean I will need a whole new water pump or will it be okay?

[Sheepy]

Louis,

if the impeller is broken, or has a piece missing, then you will need a new pump I'm afraid!

While it is off, look inside the motor, what condition is it, (lots of rust etc?) as it will also need a flush.

[LouisW]

It wasn't like the whole fin just a small bit, will I still need a whole new one?
There is a small amount of rust but not a lot its more of a bright orange residue its weird (not like rust)

[LouisW]

I suspect I may need one anyway as there was a rectangular hole in which I could see the mechanism rotating which i guess shouldn't be there? 😀

[Sheepy]

The orange residue could be rusty water/sludge, so it would benefit from a flush through with a hose pipe!

As for the pump, if it was me I would place a new one, better to be safe than sorry! 😉