grndsm Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Quoted from Beans Blah.pl?b=tr78,m=1140297657,s=50 I know, I know, but I had to ask It is disheartening to hear, as I will likely face a similar problem . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 At the moment I think there are three options left;1. Try to live with it ... 2. Fit stiffer springs and suffer on the not so smooth tarmac (in the surrounding countries) on which the car is regularly used (trembling)3. Do some reading on the subject. First idea is compression struts Something to work on this winter ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grndsm Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Quoted Text First idea is compression struts What do you mean by that? Struts that have compression damping adjustment (as opposed to rebound damping adjustment only)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Compression struts are really nothing more than tie rods that run from the TCA backwards (as opposed to tie rods going from the TCA to the front).Problem is where do I leave the ARB, interresting challange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Adding these 'compression struts' would in my opinion, not make any significant change in the amount of brake dive in itself. It would give the freedom to possibly choose a geometry with more 'anti dive' since you're no longer restricted to using the orignal roll bar moutning position. Read my post on the thead about how anti-dive spacers work from a month ago to see how front suspension geometry can create an anti-dive affect. One other thing to consider is how much the rear of the car lifts during braking since it adds to the dive angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted September 30, 2006 Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 Shouldn't that be the other way round ... Due to the nose diving down the upward movement of the rear is more pronounced You'll always have weight transfer under braking offcourseIf installed properly, so with the compression strut pointing down to the wheel, there should be no dive. During braking the wheel wants to move back and up into the chassis as the body comes down. If the angle of the arm is pointing down, the rearward force on the wheel will try to push the arm back, thus making it follow the downward arc. The weight of the body will resist this and you should have hardly any dive under braking.Only the ARB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Sometimes I do get things rather backwards but I'm unsure of the relationship between the nose dive and rear lift you're thinking about. My thinking is along this line. The amount of weight transfer is primarily determined by the center of gravity height and the wheel base. The pitch angle of the car under braking adds very little to the total weight transfer. So the total weight transfer for a given deceleration force (which on your car far exceeds the pathetic orignal braking ability) is essentially a constant. If the rear of the car has no anti-lift geometry (very likely) then the amount of weight being removed (transfered forward) will create an increase in rear ride height. Softer springs would create a greater change in height than stiffer ones for the same weight reduction. Adding some anti-lift geometry to the rear would be very interesting but I'm not sure if the changes would be practical. That's a rather long answer which may explain my idea on the rear contributing to dive angle. Your explaination of how the compression struts would be installed is very significant. The downword angle from body to balljoint will definately create an anti-dive geometry. The percentage of anti-dive is determined by how much of an inclination angle is installed. Although 100% anti dive can create some strange problems and is fairly undesirable. It's a pretty interesting project. The ARB could connect to drop links off of the strut tube if the bar end could be modified. I'm assuming the compression struts would replace the ARB location duties completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted October 1, 2006 Author Share Posted October 1, 2006 Quoted from Deleted User Blah.pl?b=tr78,m=1140297657,s=57 I think that it's also a very clear and helpfull answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 TheoNeil Revington and I have been discussing decoupling the ARB, fitting front radius arms (like a Stag) and re-attaching the ARB to different connecting points so that it functions only as an ARB not and part of the sprining. This is a standard mod he applys to racing TR7s. The trick for my (road) car would be to build in some resiliance.Have a word with him about it.Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grndsm Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Quoted from Beans Blah.pl?b=tr78,m=1140297657,s=54 Looks like I wasn't even close to what "compression strut" is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share Posted October 3, 2006 A compression strut isn't better than an ordinary tie rod. It's only better suited for certain conditions. At least that is my first opnion after some reading on the subject Also it isn't an extra support. It replaces the tie rod function of the ARB. So the ARB has to be mounted to the suspension in such a way that it doesn't influence the tie rod(function) in any way. Otherwise the handling will become very unpredictable.In my case I am looking for a car that's good on the (relatively) bad tarmac here in the region. So I need relative soft springs and long suspension travel. Very bad for anti dive under braking.Another advantage of the compression strut is when you hit a pothole at speed the wheel won't move as much into the body/backwards as an ordinary tie rod because the weight of the body counters this (for the same reason as the anti brake dive, if the strut is properly mounted that is. Got the idea in the first place from some mk1 (rallye) escorts.For an "ordinary" roadcar or a trackcar (with much stiffer springs) tie rods are probably a better option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Boohoooo ... Looks like a rebuild of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omichaelshar Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Quoted from Beans He, he, nearly there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... omichaelshar Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Theo, I mean't in the above, can you share a pic (and dimensions if possible) that shows how the caluper mounts to the strut, ie, equivalent to this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Beans Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 Quoted from omichaelshar ... wondered if you could share a pic of how your calipers are mounted to the strut hubs ... Of for this years Nightrally, will see if I can take same piccies tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Beans Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sorry, had to dig out one of the cars taking part in this years "Nachtrit" from deepest darkest Belgium yesterday ...As it's dark as I get home from work this time of year you'll have to wait at least til next weekend for some piccies from the inside ...Some general piccies which give an impression how they are fitted ...Caliper with the (radial) mounting holes visible...Mounting bracket with bolts ...Mounted caliper with mounting bolts to the right ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... omichaelshar Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Thanks Theo. Don't go to a special effort to photo the inside this weekend - but next time you have T'Kreng on the hoist I would be grateful if you snap a couple.I had never seen radially mounted calipers fitted and am curious about the mounting braket used. I assume this is fixed using the original caliper fixings to the strut. I don't suppose you took any measurements of the bracket before fixing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Beans Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Quoted from omichaelshar ... Don't go to a special effort to photo the inside this weekend - but next time you have T'Kreng on the hoist I would be grateful if you snap a couple. It's still on axle stands with the wheels of do that's not much of a problem 🤔Quoted from omichaelshar ... I assume this is fixed using the original caliper fixings to the strut ... CorrectQuoted from omichaelshar ...I don't suppose you took any measurements of the bracket before fixing? Euhh ... aslo correct I'll get a tape measurement in the piccies for comparison.Will try to measure the most important dim's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... omichaelshar Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Thanks Theo. Any data would be very much appreciated.Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Beans Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 As a temporary fix for the tyre clearance problem I made up a pair of wheel spacers from some old rear brake drums.See how they are going to fit tomorrow ...Before ...Afterwards ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... JohnD Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Respect for the enterprise, and the workmanship, Theo, but universal alloy spacers cost about £3 each, and weight a lot less.See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-X-5mm-.....C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Beans Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Well the search for the drums took me more time than the actual machining, which was less than an hour.They indeed aren't light but then it's a temporary fix.As soon as I have sorted the springs/struts they'll be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Beans Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Quoted from omichaelshar ... Any data would be very much appreciated ... Viewed from above...Bracket is 16mm wide where it is mounted to the strut;At the back it's 21.5mm wide;The mounting holes for the caliper are centered at the back;Distance from face of hub to heartline of disc is 65mm;Discs are 28mm thickViewed from the inside ...Total height of bracket is 188mm;Mounting holes are 148mm apart;No decent measurements of the distance between mounting bolts and rear of bracket.This also depends on the disc diameter, mine are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... omichaelshar Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Thanks Theo for the nice pics and data. I must have missed a thread regarding the need to spacers. I take it these are being fitted between the disk hat and hub? I might be dumb today as I can't visualise how this helps tyre clearance. Wont they move the hub face more outboard, thus bringing them closer to the wheel arch? Or is it that more clearance is needed inboard for some reason?Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Beans Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 The spacer goes between hub and wheel, thus creating more room on the inside between tyre wall ans front upright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 3 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply Share More sharing options... Followers 0
omichaelshar Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Theo, I mean't in the above, can you share a pic (and dimensions if possible) that shows how the caluper mounts to the strut, ie, equivalent to this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 Quoted from omichaelshar ... wondered if you could share a pic of how your calipers are mounted to the strut hubs ... Of for this years Nightrally, will see if I can take same piccies tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sorry, had to dig out one of the cars taking part in this years "Nachtrit" from deepest darkest Belgium yesterday ...As it's dark as I get home from work this time of year you'll have to wait at least til next weekend for some piccies from the inside ...Some general piccies which give an impression how they are fitted ...Caliper with the (radial) mounting holes visible...Mounting bracket with bolts ...Mounted caliper with mounting bolts to the right ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omichaelshar Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Thanks Theo. Don't go to a special effort to photo the inside this weekend - but next time you have T'Kreng on the hoist I would be grateful if you snap a couple.I had never seen radially mounted calipers fitted and am curious about the mounting braket used. I assume this is fixed using the original caliper fixings to the strut. I don't suppose you took any measurements of the bracket before fixing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Quoted from omichaelshar ... Don't go to a special effort to photo the inside this weekend - but next time you have T'Kreng on the hoist I would be grateful if you snap a couple. It's still on axle stands with the wheels of do that's not much of a problem 🤔Quoted from omichaelshar ... I assume this is fixed using the original caliper fixings to the strut ... CorrectQuoted from omichaelshar ...I don't suppose you took any measurements of the bracket before fixing? Euhh ... aslo correct I'll get a tape measurement in the piccies for comparison.Will try to measure the most important dim's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omichaelshar Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Thanks Theo. Any data would be very much appreciated.Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 As a temporary fix for the tyre clearance problem I made up a pair of wheel spacers from some old rear brake drums.See how they are going to fit tomorrow ...Before ...Afterwards ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Respect for the enterprise, and the workmanship, Theo, but universal alloy spacers cost about £3 each, and weight a lot less.See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-X-5mm-.....C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Well the search for the drums took me more time than the actual machining, which was less than an hour.They indeed aren't light but then it's a temporary fix.As soon as I have sorted the springs/struts they'll be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Quoted from omichaelshar ... Any data would be very much appreciated ... Viewed from above...Bracket is 16mm wide where it is mounted to the strut;At the back it's 21.5mm wide;The mounting holes for the caliper are centered at the back;Distance from face of hub to heartline of disc is 65mm;Discs are 28mm thickViewed from the inside ...Total height of bracket is 188mm;Mounting holes are 148mm apart;No decent measurements of the distance between mounting bolts and rear of bracket.This also depends on the disc diameter, mine are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omichaelshar Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Thanks Theo for the nice pics and data. I must have missed a thread regarding the need to spacers. I take it these are being fitted between the disk hat and hub? I might be dumb today as I can't visualise how this helps tyre clearance. Wont they move the hub face more outboard, thus bringing them closer to the wheel arch? Or is it that more clearance is needed inboard for some reason?Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 The spacer goes between hub and wheel, thus creating more room on the inside between tyre wall ans front upright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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