Cyril_The_Herald

Cyril The Herald So yesterday we did a little bit of electrical work.  Only tiny stuff but hopefully it all makes a difference. Replaced the battery cables & cleaned the connections Replaced the lead from the coil to the low tension lead We're learning, and wanted to try out the new soldering iron and fit some fresh electrical connectors so doing the above was a satisfying thing to do. *Cyril however still won't start* Taking on board what rustbucket2011 advised, I'm wondering whether to start the strip-down and forget the engine.

Interesting.  Does this change our plans I wonder? We need a garage  :)

Cyril the Herald Right.  Not much to update on I'm afraid.  The weather has hindered progress, and as this is a 'weekend only' venture we are very constrained with time - And when it's raining, xBox wins :-) We bought some ramps from eBay and tried to jerk the car onto them, but emptied the battery in the process so this has slowed us down (any suggestions on how to get the car on ramps without it running would be appreciated).  The reason why we want the car on ramps is so I can seek out this illusive earth strap and seek a replacement (any tips on where to get a replacement from???). So what else is happening? We are going to replace as many of the electrical wiring and connections as possible (battery leads, wires to/from ignition/coil/low tension thingy) and also, where there are any connections which are brown and not silver (i.e. rusty) were going to clean up or replace. Hopefully all of the above will result in a bigger, more consistent spark at the points, and then hopefully we'll see some fumes!!! Thanks for your continued support, guidance and interest - This is fun !!! Oh, and we've not been down 'thack (yet) although I may take a stroll in there for some ale and a chat with my new best friend on Sunday. Wish us luck. Rich & Kelly.

Cyril The Herald - Rewire Hi and thanks to those who have been so kind and helpful with my other thread.  This is a new thread, not specifically focused on getting Cyril started, road-worthy or looking good, but more content with ensuring that where I get the opportunity to, I replace all electrical wires and connections so as to gradually make good the electrical system :-) So, here is my first question (probably of many - I apologise in advance). Today I have ordered these new battery leads... http://tinyurl.com/75qo68z http://tinyurl.com/6s4cmmw ...these will surely ensure better connectivity and less resistance as the current leads are filthy, rusty and frayed. So what next, well, consulting the Circuit Diagram for the Vitesse I want to purchase all of the cable I need in all of the right colours.  problem I have is knowing what thickness/amp/voltage rating I should buy.  It's not so apparent from the Workshop Manual. Thanks in advance.  Rich & Kelly. Workshop Manual >>>

Shuddup !!! You'll never guess what just happened !!! This may take a while to explain, so please be patient with me. So I'm impatient and can't wait until tomorrow to play with Cyril so I went outside to see if I could do the tests to hot wire the ignition and test for 12 volts at the coil and to test for 12 volts at the points and I'm doing the tests and finding that I got 12 volts at the coil which was really really pleasing and then I was just about to do the points flick test and I looked down the driveway and saw an old fellow walking past and then I looked again and he'd stopped walking past and was looking up at Cyril and he said "bye'eck is that a Herald" and I pounced on him and told him "yes, come and look" and he did and he told me a trillion stories about his life as a mechanic and that he'd just been to the pub (called the 'thack) and he was on his way home for tea and he told me a fantastic story about when he was an apprentice at Arnold G Wilson in Leeds and they were a car sales garage and they took in under cover one of the first Heralds in nineteen fifty something and was there for the unveiling of the new car and he told me how that as an apprentice he was there to fix up broken cars and he told be about when one of the new cars was in a crash and the chassis was broken so he had to rebuild the Herald onto the new chassis and he looked at Cyril, and fiddled and told me about what I should do and he flicked the points and THERE WAS A SPARK and he told me to disconnect all of the electrical contacts everywhere and clean them and the earth because the spark at the points was rubbish (but I'm just pleased there's a spark at all) and then he went because he was late for his tea and I think his wife was going to kill him for being late but he said he can be found "early doors" in the 'thack but he's rubbish at remembering faces but I told him that I'll remember him because he's my new best friend and that he must call again. After he'd left, I did the big spark test taking the centre lead from the distributor cap and holding it near to the engine block whilst Kelly turned over the engine and THERE WAS A SPARK, not a big spark, but still a spark. We are making progress ;D

Cyril The Herald (By Rich and Kelly) Thanks everyone for your continued advice.  Tomorrow is "Fire Up Day", I'm confident Cyril will make fumes!!! So, in turn, our approach tomorrow will be; Hot-Wire Cyril - So to do this we'll; Fix a wire from Battery +'ve to Coil Ignition (effectively bypassing the ignition) Test for 12v using my 2nd test in my earlier post IF THE ABOVE IS SUCCESFUL i.e. we're getting 12v at the Coil then we'll; Points-Flick Test - So to do this we'll; Remove the lead from the centre of the distributor (keeping the other end connected to the coil) Rest the exposed end against the rocker cover/engine block Crank the engine by hand until the points are closed Turn on the ignition Flick the points with an electricians screwdriver Finally tomorrow, we'll be lifting the front end onto ramps so we can look underneath. It'll all very exciting.

Cyril The Herald Okay, now I'm starting to feel silly (blush) Tonight I've done the tests and found the battery is giving out a good 12v ;D but all other tests show zero volts :( this is of course assuming I'm doing it right.  Probably worth stating that the ignition was on during the tests. Apologies for my silly drawings - Feel like I need to be a bit silly right now because Cyril is testing my patience. BTW - A MASSIVE thanks to EVERYONE who is helping.  I'm amazed by the support and advice.

Cyril The Herald Thanks SRF.  I can't believe how helpful people are on here! My friend at work is lending me his volt meter so I'm looking forward to doing the test.  I'm a little nervous of doing it wrong though >: ??) so hopefully you'll help me out some more? Test#1 - Check there is 12v coming from Ignition to Coil So to do this, I assume I put one end of the tester on the +ve terminal on the coil (which comes directly from the ignition switch) but where do I put the other end of the tester? Test#2 - Check there is 12v coming from the Coil to the Points So to do this, I assume I put one end of the tester on the centre connector of the coil, and the other end on the closed points. These questions may sound dumb, but a few weeks ago I didn't even know what a coil was  ;D As always, thanks very much for your help. 4874 wrote:So with your newly acquired tester,  Make sure that you have 12 volts coming from the ignition switch to the coil, with the key turned on.  If you have,  then  test that you have 12 volts coming from the coil to the distributor points.  As I said in my previous reply.  With the points closed and with the ignition turned on. Check you have a spark coming from the centre cable that comes from the coil by holding it near a bare metal part of the engine and flicking the points open with an electrical screwdriver.  There should be a small spark from the points. A big spark indicates a faulty condensor. Until you get a big spark from the centre cable coming from the coil when flicking the points open there is no point in going further.   Condensors are my pet hate.  They can't be easily tested in a home situation and even new ones can be faulty. Another check worth doing is to make sure the points are fitted properly.

Cyril The Herald And Cyril still won't start :-( Tried the advice below from Pom Down Under by bypassing the ignition with a wire direct from the +ve terminal on the battery to the +ve terminal to the coil - Turned the ignition and the engine still turned over but still won't fire up.  Checked for a spark at the plugs and nothing :( What next? Interestingly, at first, when I made the connection from the +ve coil terminal to the +ve battery terminal, there were small sparks to be seen on the battery terminal.  After trying to start the car, I disconnected my make-shift ignition, removed a plug (to check for a spark) then re-installed my make-shift ignition - BUT NO SPARKING.  What might this be? 1379 wrote:...However, a foolproof method is to disconnect the ignition wire at the coil and then run a wire direct from the + battery post (or whichever battery post you may have not connected to earth). This wire has now effectively replaced the ignition switch. All the tests indicated before to check for spark can now be repeated - remembering that if the engine does start (hopefully) you will then need to remove the wire from the battery to shut the engine down (so better to have the wire connected in such a way that you can pull it off easily if needed.) www.ourtriumphherald.wordpress.com

Cyril The Herald Today we checked whether there is a spark at the plugs, and there isn't.  So took on board the advice from SRF below but still no spark. 4874 wrote:If there is no spark at the plug, take off the distributor cap, make sure the points are closed, remove the lead from the centre of the distributor  cap.  Rest this lead close to a metal part of the engine and with the ignition turned on take an electrical screwdriver and flick the points open.  You should see and hear a spark between the centre lead and engine part.  If you have a spark then there is a fault with the rotor arm, distributor cap, or HT leads.   If no spark then there is a fault in the low tension side of the ignition system.  First make sure there is a 12 volt feed to the coil with the ignition switched on.  If there is then replace the points condensor and the coil. So, question is, how do we check that there is a 12 volt feed to the coil?  Is there a 'gadget' we should have to do this? So far we've replaced loads of ignition parts including the coil, dizzy cap, plugs, rotor arm, points and high tension lead. As always, all advice very gratefully received. www.ourtriumphherald.wordpress.com

Cyril The Herald 450 wrote:...Are you running neg or pos earth from the battery? this will determine which way round the leads go to the coil. Just dashed outside in the rain to check the battery wiring and this is the outcome... The battery has the earth from the negative point to the bodywork (then a whole load of wires leading from this point). The battery has the positive point leading to 'a gadget' shown below (no idea what this is). The coil has the negative point leading to the low tension lead on the distributor.

Cyril The Herald Google is great! Did some searching and found this site which gave me some useful info on how to set your points gap... http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/Ignition_Parts_Web_Ready.pdf Made the necessary changes to the points (set at 0.015in) and was so confident Cyril would fire up we did a video of it... http://youtu.be/aY-i37gYqcc :(

Cyril The Herald Thanks Oggi for your advice. 450 wrote:When I mentioned the earth strap I mean the one from the engine to chassis, which is located at the front of the engine and goes underneath and is bolted to the chassis via the steering rack mounts. This 'earth strap' is gonna take some finding.  When I find it though, it'l be getting replaced! 450 wrote:I take it you set the correct gap on the points when you installed them? 0.16 from memory but could be wrong. If you want to check for spark pull one of the spark plugs reattach the lead to the plug and hold it close to the block. PLEASE NOTE THIS IS HIGH VOLTAGE SO USE WELL INSULATED PLIERS TO HOLD THE PLUG. When you crank it over you should be able to see a spark running across the gap on the spark plug, if not its either the points arent set right, engine earth is poor or you havent got the low voltage lead attached to the distributor and coil. Ummm.  We got a lot to learn.  gap on the points!?!?!  Out comes the Haynes Manual! www.OurTriumphHerald.wordpress.com

Cyril The Herald Hi Mark - We're based in South Milford near Selby.

Cyril The Herald So today, following advice from Oggi, Kelly fitted new points, condenser, rotor arm, distributor cap and coil and... nothing :-( Still, it was fun experimenting. Here's Kelly unhooking the battery (not sure why, Edd China tells you to on Wheeler Dealers so that's why I suppose).  So what next?  Well, Oggi suggests checking the 'earth strap' - Can anyone help with what one of those might be? 450 wrote:If your trying to get it running first thing I would suggest as your getting fuel to the plugs (is the fuel new or old?) replace the points and condensor and rotor arm check the condition of the dizzy cap. They are all really cheap parts and the best place to start. If still no spark check the earth strap and replace the coil. I have been through all this recently with mine it's a process of elimination, mine ended up being the coil was on it's way out.