Casper

Change point GA178101*E

Quick check is to look at the core plugs.  Buckets on the later engine

C.

Change point GA178101*E

Quick check is to look at the core plugs.  Buckets on the later engine

C.

If it is a GA with a number under 237600, GB under 57202 or FC under 120000 then it is the early thin inner shaft type.  Later numbers are the stronger shaft

C.

Commission Numbers for GA models 

GA1DL		Feb	61	First saloon 7031HP Regd 13th Oct 1960 Engine X807E
GA266CV		Feb	61	First CV
GA609CP		Feb	61	First coupé
GA3838		Mar	61
GA4414SC		Mar	61	First estate
GA6458		Apr	61
GA13393SC			61	HTW731B
GA15938		Jun	61	No Bonnet handle
GA20039			61	Still with black pear gearknob? GA20465HE
GA23599		Jul	61	Change to coat hooks
GA29284		Oct	61	Disc Brakes optional
GA34986E			61	B30 PSE1 carb.
GA35950		Oct	61	Bonnet stays fitted
GA41328	22	Nov	61	Car (AM) LCV
GA43171	6	Dec	61	Car (AM) LCP
GA44651				First Courier
GA45538	1	Jan	62
GA50248		Feb	62	Door lock change
GA80001		July	62	Mk 2 (Star) chassis
GA80974	13	July	62	Car (AM) LCV
GA83026		Aug	62
GA85461		Sep	62	Cast iron bellhousing
GA86161		Sep	62	Dizzie cap change
GA86626			62	Estates given 4 ½“ J wheels
GA90271			62	Roof cover plate reads Triumph (not Herald)
GA90334		Oct	62	Bonnet lettering ‘Triumph’
FC1HE		Oct	62	Spitfire 4
GD1RS		Dec	62	First 12/50
GA97611	1	Jan	63
GA102478	14	Feb	63	Car (AM) LCV
GA106791	20	Mar	63	Car (AM) LCV GA105229HE
		Mar	63	White wheels appear following intro of 12/50
GA109884	9	Apr	63	Car (AM) LCV GA108006HE
GA114739		May	63	Sealed beam headlights. ?Short H/L cowl
GA119167	29	Jun	63	Car (AM) LCV GA117490HE
GA121559		July	63
GA127239			63	Spider calliper mounting on vertical link
GA130164		Aug	63	Pedal brake light switch
GA130264		Aug	63	New style dash
GA138340	1	Jan	64
GA141873			64
GA154566CP	29	Jul	64	Coupe for sale GA152205HE
GA161460E		?Aug	64	Square ended fan
GA162103CP		Oct	64	last coupé (total 5319)
GA163205V		Oct	64	last Courier (5316)
GA164781		Nov	64	Narrow slot wheels
GA178101E		Nov	64	Hot Cam Engine
FC5000HE				Spit Mk 2 Hot Cam, Diaphragm Clutch
FC61023E				Spit Mk 2 with Mk 3 cam, large followers
GA169447	1	Jan	65
GA172789		Feb	65	Start change rear lenses
GA173303			65	Change rear lenses from L636 to L759
GA178624E		May	65	Head fitted with brass tube
GA184793		Oct?	65	Late thermostat housing
GA188886		Apr?	65	Split seat belt mounts
GA1895**	14	Aug	65	Car CGR751C (Mark H.)
GA184793E		?Oct	65
GA190341E			65	HS2 on TC option
GA200280	1	Jan	66
GA204020E		Jan	66	Diaphragm clutch
GA206771E		Jan	66	Rubber rear crankshaft seal
FC69122E	?	?	?	ditto
GA221593DL			66	Car (OAC 64F)
GA222433	1	Jan	67
FD		Jan	67	Spit Mk 3
GA225581E		?Feb	67	Pressed fan ?
GA230770CV	7	Jun	67	Car (NDU710F)
GE1DL		Aug	67	First 13/60
GA229454			67	Change to 14LP type brake calipers
GA234868		Sep	67	last CV (total 43295)
GA234990		Sep	67	last estate (total 39819)
GD55689RS		Sep	67	Last 12/50
GA235735		Nov	67	Rubber boot mat
GA236220		Dec	67	Black carpets
GA236629	1	Jan	68
GA237600D			68	Stronger Diff.
FC120000D?	?	?	?	ditto
GA238107		Mar	68	Now Negative Earth / late dizzie top
GA244523	1	Jan	69
GA248238	1	Jan	70
GA249873DL		Dec	70	End (saloon)  (total 201142)
‘Car AM’ indicates that the car is recorded on the North American Triumph Herald database: http://triumph-herald.us

 

So looking at these figures (and not taking valve seat/ opening area into account). The carbs in red would technical suffocate the engine and the carbs in green would delivery sufficient air flow. 

Not an expert in carb theory but for a 1200 the Solex formula (d = 0.82 x Sqrt(cylinder volume[cc] x Peak revs[4.5 x 1000]) gives 30mm for the diameter.  The Herald was fitted with a 30.  The 948 was slightly overcarbed at 28mm c.f. a calculated 26.  But I believe that the venturi of these carbs is way less than the notional diameter.

C.

 I think they were a big valve head

Toledo and 13/60 had the same size inlet valves.  The Dolomite 1300 had larger, but I have no power data for the Dolly.  

Note that the 1200 Spitfire engines had larger valves than the 1200 Herald engines.

Jordan.  The Toledo/Dolomite mani has a 'dead air' space at either end of the 'log', past the right angles to the inlet port(s).  I think John Thomason thought this important.

C.

Toledo probably done under DIN conditions fitted with water/oil pump, alternator etc etc,

Correct.  58 DIN and 65 ISO.  c.f. 13/60 at 61 ISO.

Spitfire article Courier 216 Jun 1998.  See also Couriers 111 and 112 for manifold theory.

Also Courier 221 Nov 1998 for HS6/Dolomite manifold on a 1300 Spitfire

C.

John Thomason wrote a series of articles in another club's magazine describing the use of a Toledo manifold and HS6 on a 1500 Spitfire.  I believe he also experimented with the 13/60 bananas.  John Kipping also recommended the Toledo mani as part of his 'ideal fast road' 1300 setup.

C.   

Quoted Text

to remove the main master light switch you just need to undo the switch by removing the bezel.

You will need to remove the knob first by pressing in the sprung pin from underneath with a v small screwdriver or similar (I use an old bicycle spoke).  They can be quite stiff.
C.

Quoted Text

Do I put some correctional fluid on the crank shaft pulley hole and make sure its in line when I use my timing light?

Firstly, put the mark on the front rim of the pulley in line with the hole so that its easier to see.  That will be 1/4 tdc.  Also, mark the end of the triangle pointer so that that is clearly visible.  This may be adequate depending on your timing gun (if it is an advance type) but I would also put a mark 1cm before the tdc mark to indicate 10 deg btdc and another 0.5cm further away to indicate 15 deg btdc.  With a normal timing gun set the timing so that the 15 deg mark and the triangle pointer are aligned.  That should give a starting point from which you can experiment for the ideal setting.
C.

Quoted Text

Hi, yes I have a timing light but its hard to see the timing marks so I may need to take off the front grill.

Quoted Text

Its normally necessary to paint a thin line on the actual pulley timing mark with correction fluid or white paint so that its easy to see with the strobe.

The problem is normally finding them!  There are NO timing marks on the perimeter of the pulley.  There is a small, normally invisible, hole on the rear face of the pulley at 1/4 TDC.  Once you have found this hole it is worthwhile marking the perimeter with white paint (Tippex works well).  If you do your sums (Circumference = pi (22/7) x d (116mm), then divide by 360 = 1.012290966 mm) you will find that one degree rotation equates to 1mm.  You are now in a position to make a mark at the required degree of advance for your engine, and you can then set the ignition either using static methods, or with a timing light.  Note that 1200 and 1300 engines have different timing: 15° for 1200 and 9° for 13/60.  These are only starting figures.
C.

Mine doesn't look quite like that but I think it's just a big fibre washer. I haven't got my spare tank out of storage but I have just looked at it lying full length and stretch by the light of a torch.  I know I have stripped rebuilt it and had no trouble (or at least I can't remember any).
Is there a part number for it that can be researched with the hardware catalogue?
C.

No.
Early 1200 40743
Late 1200 40791
13/60       41127

BUT you would be hard put to notice any difference.   I have tried a very wide range of dizzies on my engine and there seems to be no noticeable effect.

C.

Quoted Text

are you planning to swap the diff?

and the early 1200 diff with the thinner inner halfshafts will not appreciate the extra torque and WILL break (not necessarily soon, but it will).

Change point was in 1968 at (1200) GA237600, (Export) GB57202 and (Spitfire) FC120000.  Numbers lower than these have the early thin inner shafts.

C,

Quoted Text

sliding spline although, I don't think you'll find one of those on a Herald.

12/50s had them, I believe

C.

Seat Fitting

Problems can often be found with seats that have been incorrectly refitted after being removed.  There are some minor variations in detail over the models and period of production but I believe the following should apply to all variations.
Components and terminology:
Seat runners - fitted to the floor, have holes for the adjuster to register in.

Subframe - runs on runners, includes adjuster lever on one side only.  Has two brackets on the front, each with two holes arranged one ABOVE the other.  On one side the bracket is square and straight, and on the other side the holes are set forward, so the bracket is shaped like a B.

Seat frame - on which seat is built.  Brackets at the front have two holes arranged one BEHIND the other.

Fitting:
Seat runners should be fitted with holes to the rear,  fixed with 5/16" UNF bolts, and with 1/2" spacers (thick washers) under each bolt.  Captive nut on turret at the rear is FQ3406 (should be available from the usual suspects).

The sub-frames are handed: you should have a pair.  They should be fitted so that the adjuster lever and catch is nearest the transmission tunnel.  This adjuster should mate with the holes in the seat runner (but won't if the seat runner has been fitted back to front).  This ensures that the holes on the bracket on the door side are a smidgen further forward than the transmission tunnel side, i.e. the B shaped bracket is nearest the door.

Choose between the high and the low hole on the seat sub-frame.  This adjusts rake and/or height (with blocks).  Use the foremost hole on the seat frame bracket for the door side (ie the side where the sub-frame holes are further forward) and the rearmost hole on the seat frame bracket on the tunnel side.  This means that the seat sits square on the sub-frame.  The fact that the pivot point is slightly angled, means that when the seat is tipped forward, the top moves inwards and does not hit the A post/windscreen surround.

Quoted Text

a c clip on the threaded rod near the end, this stops it.

http://www.mgexp.com/pictures/8096.jpg#utm_source=alias&utm_medium=mgexperience.net

You can see the clip here.

I recently posted this, but it's 10 clicks per degree, 4 degrees per division (at the crank)

C.

First thing is to make sure the sliding triangles on the bottom of the B-post catch assembly are free to move easily.  They are sprung loaded and get gummed up.  WD40 to the fore.

Almost all the door seals currently available are incorrect, being a baloon section that is too big, preventing the door from closing easily.

There are a range of adjustments to try after that, but meanwhile, search the forum for 'tub spread', although this is normally less of an issue with saloons.

Enjoy your Vitesse and welcome to the board.

C.

Sorry - that posted twice.  Mods ?

Dave, I think you may be thinking of Redex Upper cylinder lubricant, while mazfg may be referring to Oil Additive.

I'm not sure exactly what is on offer now.  I would happily use UCL, although benefits may be small with modern oils and fuels.  (I have been known to use Holts Piston Seal - now discontinued I believe - but only on a real oil burner to stave off the inevitable for a while)

On the other hand the tribologists work very hard to formulate their oils and adding to the mix might be unwise.  Just make sure you are using a good oil.

C.

Bill will tell you that drum brakes are fine (no experience of them myself), but the shoes are difficult to get hold of.

Your car is a very nice example of an early 1200.  Many of the minor developments (changes and 'improvements') to production had occurred since the 1959 introduction of the Herald, but there were many refinements, production changes and cost cutting measures occurring in the first year or so of the new model.  Yours was built in the first 6 months of production.  I believe that the 1200 was built in the new production hall, and this (for some reason) led to improved build quality.  The 1200 was regarded by the motoring press as a great improvement over the single carbed 948 models, so all this is good.  Your car has many early features that are of interest to aficionados but have little real relevance to most enthusiasts.  The reasons these features were changed as time went on might be that better solutions were found, whether the improvement was performance, cost savings or production reasons.

Some of the things that could be considered as 'bad' points about your car include:
Early, weaker chassis
Engine in its lowest state of tune producing 39 bph, some 18% less than the latest 1200s, but at least at 8:1 CR you probably won't need octane booster or top spec fuel.
Spares availability of some parts is more limited than later models (carb, front brakes, steering rack, rear lenses, etc.)

Unless the car is in concours condition the early features have little bearing on value.  Apart from model type (eg convertible vs saloon) the condition of Heralds is nearly always the factor that determines price.  But there is no reason why the car will not be fun and relatively inexpensive to own and maintain, and practical to drive on a regular basis (motorways may not be too much fun, though).

Good luck sorting out the rich running.  If you need help, PM me.

C.

GA15938 was the first with no bonnet handle, in June 1961.
Looking at other data, my guess would be production May or early June.
Apart from minor details that Bill and Andy might mention it will be a real 'early spec.' car.  Many think the bonnet handle was a 948 only item.

BMIHT can supply build dates, etc., but at a price.
http://www.heritage-motor-cent.....ge-certificates.html

Your car will have a B-30 ZIC type carburettor, probably a 3 or a 5. The number will be stamped on the side of the float bowl, covered in muck.
You may have some problems finding gasket sets, but they are out there, as Ford Anglias used them,
for example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Angllia-105E-997cc-Carburettor-gasket-ZIC-3-/331571216747
See also: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/291390704537 (Jetting info will be wrong)
and http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/SolexCarbs/ZenithSP174.htm

John, the front discs from Oct 1961 was an optional extra, so not a proper dating feature.  They also offered aftermarket conversions.

C.

I'd not heard about 'Silver Seal engines before now:

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/engine/be100a.htm

C.

Gold Seal engines were factory reconditioned engines from British Leyland/BMC.  
S-T named (and painted) some engines as 'Gold Star'.

herald948 (who replied above) has a great list of commission numbers and engine number so we should be able to identify if the engine (is likely to be that which) was originally fitted.

The GA indicates a 1200, the DL indicates a saloon car.

Some people are cautious about putting their full car identifying details onto the internet, being worried about [I'm not sure what].  But, we should be able to tell a fair bit about the car with a number within 100 of what it actually is.

C.

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/images/TriumphHerald_NoLocation.jpg

It's on the V5 as well, because the plate might have been removed

It should be something like GAnnnnnnDL

C.