Adrian Girling

I have one. Looks untidy, but when you look closely it's been really well welded in the usual places including the wheel arches - just needs to be tidied up.

Yes Frank, it is. I'll DM you

Thank you 👍

Good point, thank you! I was thinking the relay should be near the fan rather than behind the dash, screwed to the chassis with just one low current wire running to it from the collector of TR2 but no good reason really. I'll do a bit of maths but I agree that a trimpot instead of (or in series with) a fixed R2 would allow adjustment of the turn on temperature. I was thinking another instead of (or in series with) a fixed R3 would allow the on/off hysteresis window to be varied. This would introduce the dreaded effect where changing one affects the other - don't see an easy way round that... Supporting the need for adjustment! Should probably add a dashboard LED to show the fan is on.

Thanks Howard, your numbers suggest that switching at lower resistances would be fine. I believe it’s better for the engine to run hot, just not too hot! I don’t know what the optimum temperature is, but I’ve seen temperature gauges that have a full scale of 170 degrees C I think my poor old herald might complain at anything much more than 100C 😂

Thanks for asking Adrian. See my back of an envelope (literally) sketch. Need to think it through, and I'd welcome anyone who offers simplification (or sympathy if I've got it completely wrong) before lashing up a prototype. I'd want to add trimpots to be able to adjust the trigger voltages - I'm thinking maybe turning on the fan at a sensor resistance of 50 ohms and off again at 100 ohms but would welcome input on this too. Happy to explain how (I think) it works if anyone is interested. I don't have a working vehicle to test it with right now so if anyone would like to beta test it I'd make one up...

Hi Ben, yes it is, I'll DM you

Adrian B, I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like - overlap of Triumph Enthusiasts and fans of Mills and Boon 😂 Clive, the answer is no. If I ever get this car on the road I'll find out! Doing this for fun whilst I wait for the GRP bodyshell to come back from the genius who is copying it into aluminium. I'm using the 13/60 to build a replica of a 1936 BMW 328 using a body made from a buck made from an original car. I'm sure that's true - I suppose I'm trying to reduce the variation but I'm also sure it's actually not necessary. As Clive said, need to get the basics right.

Spot on! Took it out of the instrument assembly (Temp and Fuel gauge, beam and indicator light) and can see the bimetalic strip and return spring. Measured a resistance of 60 ohms - same as the fuel gauge, presumably the same core instrument with a different scale. Wacked 9 volts across it, watched it climb to the red line - the resistance went up to close to 65 ohms - i.e. not a lot. An elegant way of building in latency for measurements that don't change rapidly - less prone to jump about than a moving coil and presumably less expensive. With a sensor which may nominally have a low temperature resistance of 500 ohms and a high temperature resistance of 40 ohms I can see how this would work nicely giving a reliable indication over the range. With 60 plus 40 ohms at high temperature the maximum current would be 100mA - easily achieveable with a 10V linear regulator (instead of my sad looking voltage stabiliser), probably without a heatsink. Sniffing the voltage between the gauge and the thermistor through an op amp comparator should provide a signal to turn the fan on. For now, I'm not even going to mention electronic hysteresis - may not be necessary as there will probably be enough lag in the system. And I'm certainly not going to entertain a PWM drive for the fan - for now....

Nicely explained, thank you. I'm about to check the characteristics of the temperature meter. I've read somewhere that it's a moving iron meter, not a moving coil but that would probably need more current whereas a moving coil with a series resistor (and maybe a parallel one as well) could surely be made to work with less current so the current through the thermistor has negligable heating effect. But I'm speculating - you sound like you know!

Point taken. In hindsight, I overreacted to a series of posts which were actually trying to be helpful. Apologies. I've cooled down now - in spite of the heat! I am so embarrased that I didn't realise this distinction. I should have looked at the wiring diagram - which calls the regulator a "Control Box". In my defence I'm literally working with a complete wreck - regulator along with a thousand other parts in four big plastic boxes - it looked so bad inside I decided to change the dynamo to an alternator. Mea culpa Found the little blighter on the back of the speedometer (in another box). Doesn't look pretty, I wonder if it still works... That now makes sense to me. My ignorance was a major contributor to the miscommunication, sorry again. I wonder how this device actually worked in the 1960s? A quick google suggests that modern replacements are probably made along the lines of the linear voltage regulator I described, with a pretty clean output but a low pass filter is good too. I need to check the characteristics of the temperature gauge Thank you for the encouragement. As usual, the detail is always more complicated than the idea. The temperature curve of the NTC sensor looks so flat where you need it most - it's a wonder that temperature gauges consistently show a useful reading. A diode would be so much easier as a sensor for my solution.

Just living in the wrong part of the country....

Thanks for this, needed someone to remind us And helping the engine to run at the optimum temperature in a world where more time is spent in traffic jams. When this car was developed I believe there were less than 10% of the cars on the road than there are now. Agreed that it's simple and Triumphs of that era were great - modern cars have far more things to go wrong! I was present, visiting the Truimph factory when the Lynx was cancelled because "it would have competed with the Rover 2000" and everyone walked out. I was witnessing the implosion of the British motor industry.

Because it's cheaper and easier to do if you are starting from scratch and have an ECU. As an engineer for over 50 years I had a successful career challenging the status quo. One thing I learned early on is not to trash other peoples ideas - we make progress by considering new ways to do things, even if they are not worth pursuing, as they may lead others to ideas which are. There are better more courteous ways of presenting your point of view. I am not proposing a linear voltage regulator to replace the "voltage stabiliser" or "voltage regulator" whichever you choose to call it. Probably more accurate to describe it as a voltage regulator as pointed out by Paul (drofgum) as that better fits it's actual function. I am proposing inserting the the IC beteen the positive rail and the temperature meter - it would not handle the current for all the electrics.

Wow, at least I'm getting a lot of responses, got to look on the positive! Trying to reply to more than one post, don't think I can quote from more than one at a time: Thanks Paul. I can see that the voltage regulator would be lumpy - hence the idea of putting a linear voltage regulator IC between the positive rail and the temperature meter to clamp it to 12V. LM1085IT-12/NOPB has a very low dropout voltage, or even LM317T which would allow adjustment to 10V or lower. Thanks Glang, I'll check out the posts on whether an electric fan is necessary! Almost certainly not, but I'm enjoying messing around whilst I wait for other parst to be delivered....

Wow, I hadn't expected a storm of discouraging responses. I've switched to an alternator as the "voltage stabiliser" was defunct, but I'd probably incorporate a cheap (£0.50) linear voltage regulator anyway for good practice. I disagree that this is "overly complex" - simple to do and there must be a reason all modern ICE cars have something like this. Adding extra sensors is more complex in my view

Spotted this post as I'm thinking of fitting an MX5 fan (which I have) and need to work out how to switch it on and off. My solution would be fairly simple electronics to sniff the voltage at the temperature sensor which I believe is an NTC thermistor and use a comparator and a relay to turn the fan on and off. Slightly more complex to add hysterisis so it doesn't hunt, and a way to leave it running after the ignition is switched off until a lower temperature is reached (as the temperature would otherwise go up for a while) Surely, there is a product out there that does this?

Found them. Will take them to Gaydon in case you are there on Sunday. I'll be in my Alfa MiTo, parked in the public area

Very nice Paul, thank you 😀

Many thanks Tim, I'll apply now Adrian

Should have thought of this before. Some advice on how to attach a crank trigger wheel? And mounting the trigger sensor - I'm thinking of fabricating a bracket to bolt onto the plate which extends out to the left of the engine (as you look from the front) which is there for the engine mount....

Hope this is the right forum to post this. I'm wondering if anyone living near TW20 postcode is going to Gaydon this weekend? I'm trying to get some 13/60 parts (window winder and associated bits) which will be tricky to pack to someone who will be there so it would really help if I could drop them off to someone near me to hand carry... Whilst posting, was thinking of going myself but not sure if I'd be entitled to a free pass without my Herald as she is in bits at the moment 😢

Hi Alan, I think I have these, both sides, no idea if they are the same or mirrored. I'm using a wreck of a 13/60 to build a pre-war sports car so won't need them. TW20 postcode in case you are near Cheers Adrian

Just thinking, mine's light grey but reading another post, vinyl dye could work?

Excellent! I will follow your lead 👍