Roger Keys
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Posts posted by Roger Keys
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Need to give up for now. The "entry list" button is now awol from the website.
Stuck at services on M6. Time to go home
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Quoted from mole42
Is it really necessary to do it every time? ....
Is that a serious question?
Of course it is!!
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Im convinced about the spoiler.
Having just done the 10CR, we had a few stints of 90mph plus sustained running and a short one at 100mph. Gauge never moved at all.
Before the spoiler it would rise a bit and drop almost immediately after coming off the power. -
Quoted from Andy Flexney
not in the slightest
The idea of 2 versions did not really work the last time it was offered. A second all nighter was perhaps the wrong concept. I only know of 1 team that did that at the time, all the rest chose to have an extra night in a half decent bed.
AndyF
I think that statement says all you need to know about where the majority want to be with this event. OK, that may take on it, but its pretty telling.
That said, ive only done the last 2 so have a lot les experience than others of these events.
But, fundamentally, the good roads are further south and east in europe. Getting there is dull. One french motorway is much the same as the next. For me more time on the fun roads is what i really want. But ideally not a non stop 15 hours a day.
So count me in for stretching the number of days
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Quoted from cliftyhanger
Ah, the distance. We were talking (as you do, over dinner and a beer in italy/france/germany etc) and thought as we start in Europe, would it be possible to use what is currently the day before the start, but everybody (I think, could be wrong) drives down from the UK. So could we use that as a "transit" day and do eg Luxembourg and Belgium, and have the start this year nearer Mulhouse? These are all musings from the dinner table.
After all, the "good" driving is mainly in the mountains etc and not on the motorways. But for us, a fair part of the event is in stopping, having a drink/cake and just taking a bit of time to enjoy where we are. It seems to improve the driving experience too.
Im with Clive on this.
The "easy" solution would seem to be start the trip further south into europe.
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Quoted from Andy Flexney
did anyone else miss the re-starts after an overnight stop on this year's 10CR?
AndyF
Simple answer, yes!
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Quoted from CharliesStag
The fan debate is an interesting one. I have a viscous fan on my modern.
However, a well known Magazine editor in the States tested a few different fans. The results were surprising:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdLgaFXZzs
FWIW mine was OK with just the electric Kenlowe. A better fitment and shrouding would have made it more effective however.
Still working fine without the mechanical fan
What improved it as ive posted before was fitting a spoiler, an exercise ive just repeated on "new stag" with the exact same results. -
Quoted from Nick Jones
My previous engine with entirely standard sump used to hold it's oil pressure considerably better in spite of high mileage, even when very hard used. Hot idle pressure never went below 20psi and properly hot @ 2000rpm was 60 psi or 70 psi @ 3000 rpm
The current engine, with less than 10k miles on it, can see idle pressures < 10psi, 45 psi @ 2000 rpm and barely 60 psi @ 3000 rpm. The gauge and even the relief valve spring are the same actual ones as the old engine. (though I've tried several relief valve springs without much change)
For reasons that don't seem especially obvious now, when I built the current engine I baffled the sump with both a horizontal plate at roughly the normal oil level and a curved vertical plate below it (pic). What I now realise I didn't do was provide enough oil return pathways so most of the returning oil goes back via the cut-out for the oil pump placing it right back by the oil pick-up. I think this reduces the natural mixing in the sump and means that the volume of oil in active circulation is seriously reduced.
The effect is (and it's been present on this engine right from the beginning) that the oil pressure falls off very quickly as the engine warms and quickly falls further if put under duress. It's also noticeable that the oil pressure recovers (to an extent) quite quickly if you stop or even just spend some time going slowly. Presumably because the heat gets dissipated into the rest of the oil. I've had the same results with VR1 and Millers 20/60. The latter, which was what was in the sump for the 10CR, fared no better in spite of supposedly higher viscosity rating and is very black after just 2,500 miles.
I now have an oil temperature gauge to fit to get some actual numbers and if the theory is proven I'll either have to fit a cooler or remove the sump and revise/remove the baffling. The latter is favourite but it's an awkward job on a Vitesse or I'd have done it already.
The better news is that the actual pressures aren't that horrific and the engine actually seems perfectly healthy even now.
Nick
An interesting theroy. I too have my other stag, not baffled did not suffer at all on the last 10CR. This stag, this time, did. Down to less than 7psi at the top of Stelvio. OK, i wasn't kind to it, but then i wasn't last time either.
I baffled it only because under heavy braking all oil pressure was lost. Ive posted elsewhere on the forum about this.
As im pulling off the cross member soon anyway, i may drop the sump and put some holes in the top face of my baffling arrangement.
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Quoted from Nick Jones
Oil pressure at hot idle.....
I think this is due to very high oil temperatures caused by me over-baffling the sump. The oil started clean and was very black after the first day in the mountains...
What is your logic behind "over baffling" causing high oil temps?
I had high oil temps too. -
Quoted from timbancroft61
Roger,
Thank you for the kind offer, will call if having an issue.
But Feltham are very good, used to take the GT6 there, would still, but their new rig does not accept 13'' wheels!!!
How is the Stag?
Did you get the email I sent yesterday about Hotel listing?
Tim
Sure did
Though sadly, the stag has sprung a coolant leak from the edge of the head gasket 😲
And im away most of the next week................................
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Quoted from Straight Six
I’m confused, which frankly happens with worrying regularity. If I want to replace my fuel hose with stuff that doesn’t make the car smell of petrol, won’t degrade on the outer surface when exposed to the elements and is ethanol resistant I need to buy……. which product???
Am I missing something (probably) but if I buy fuel hose from any modern car main dealer - let’s say Ford cos that’s my nearest one - surely their hose will be of the latest spec and suitable for modern fuels? The only issue I can see is that Focuses and the like use this new-fangled metric system, but I’m sure there will be an equivalent size close enough.
Gates Barricade.
You wouldn't be able to get fuel hose from a main dealer, at least not by the meter. They would just ask what hose on what car with what VIN and order accordingly. -
Quoted from timbancroft61
Roger,
Its ok, but not brilliant. Had four wheel done a year ago just before the 2016 RBRR, but by having the front done using old fashioned mechanical alignment gauges on Sat, I suppose the rear is probably out of alignment.
Need to get the rears done and then set up the front, but I have no shims for the rear should the back need some for toe out. So have just ordered a few from Paddocks.
Will take the car to Feltham Tyres at Hatton Cross, they usually align my cars. Although they cannot do 13'' wheels anymore, that rules out the GT6 and the Spitfire.
These CT distance events, cost once one starts to prep the car!!!
If you get stuck, i might be able to do it Sunday. Got shims as well! Just done the stag. -
Quoted from timbancroft61
That looks a nice car, Bryce.
Good luck with the work, see you at Lille!
My Saloon is nearly ready, just needs the front wheel aligning, an oil change and retard the ignition.
She is going like a train!
You sorted for wheel alignment Tim?
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Quoted from daver clasper
Looking on the net, Moss sell Gates Barricade for £7 a metre. Would this be fake do you think. (not Moss faking I must add).
Cheers, Dave
I get barricade direct from the importer. Its significantly more than that. But that said, mines the injection stuff.
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The other stuff is probably R6. It will smell, the vapours pass through it. Everyone sells it, yet its useless with modern fuels!
Even gates R6 is going to be pretty useless. Its not what its for. They eve quote the permeability rates. -
I suspect you can buy a real version of it. But anyone can get cheap R6 and print whatever they like on it. Doesn't make it any good.
But ive used it, and without exception, the same thing happened. Its is was R9 it would be fine. R9 is (was) the spec that fuel hoses on new cars need to meet. They dont break up like this.
Gates do some really good bulletins explaining the various hose specs. Google is your friend! -
Quoted from Nick Jones
Fuel hose is a bit of a tricky subject at present. Ethanol content in modern fuel does definitely affect fuel hose rubbers and can lead to either outright failure or strong fuel smells without any actual visible leakage (permeation).
Some countries (Oz and USA for example) are on top of this and have legislated to define fuel hoses fit for use with modern biofuels or fuels with a bio component. UK has not so your local motor factor will sell what ever they like (or Gates tells then they should sell).
My local factor sells Gates generic "injection hose". It allows permeation (strong fuel smells) and goes hard after a few months which I discovered when EFI'ing my PI.
There is an SAE standard, J30, which defines fuel hose types and this recommends "R9" as being suitable for ethanol containing fuels.
I've been buying this for a few years, usually from Advanced Fluid Solutions in Kent. However, I've recently noticed that this stuff suffers serious cracking after only a couple of years. It's a two layer hose and the cracking seems to afflict mainly the outer layer so I've not had any actual leakage but it's only a matter of time I reckon. Not sure whether this is a general "R9" issue of if the stuff from this supplier is rubbish.
I've actually had better results using the older "R6" hoses which I used for years on the Vitesse before "upgrading" to R9. This time though I've swapped all 8 sections of flexi-hose in the fuel system to Cohline 2240 which is supposed to be good for ethanol up to E15 and even bio-diesel. We shall see......
Check your hoses - A friend recently reported a scare with his E30 320i with fuel pissing from a split in the high pressure feed hose all over the alternator....... Hose was renewed less than 3 years ago. How a fire was avoided I have no idea 😲
Nick
As i said in the 10 countries run, your hose is fake. Been there got the T shirt.
Gates barricade everytime. Ok, thats the injection version, so overkill, but it works. Doesn't degrade like yours. I used the same company as you orginally at work. Same result. Its fake. -
Quoted from Nick Jones
Been going over the Vitesse in preparation.
Engine oil and filter changed and diff oil changed. I change the diff oil before every 10CR.
Whilst under the the car I also noticed that the fuel line was cracking badly (pic). This was a big disappointment as the hose was new before the last 10CR and special (expensive) R9 ethanol rated hose. No sign of actual leakage but even so..... System runs at 3 Bar / 45psi.......
Now changed out for Cohline 2240 "biofuels rated" hose made of FPM. I changed all 8 sections of flexi-hose in the system.
Thats the fake stuff.
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Quoted from JohnD
I've recalled that early sixes had a simple sump, as I showed above.
Later, a gauze mesh surface plate was fitted, to a solid steel rim, that would inhibit slosh into the shallow front.
Could it be that the same was doen on Stags? And you have an early one?
JOhn
Possible. But i cant find any evidence there was a change. And my other one, which doesn't suffer had nothing in the sump either. The reason they are different in behaviour is a bit of a mystery, but on the upside its fixed now
Which is good as in a month it will be on some italian pass!
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Quoted from timbancroft61
Only a few more jobs to do:
New discs and pads
New steering rack and TREs
Bit of paint and possibly a plate to be welded.
Tidy up and look at wiring for auxiliary extras.
2 months to go!
Roger,
Like the new Stag, hope not putting THOSE wheels on her?!
Yes and no! Only for the run. AFTER ive painted the centres black as per Daves suggestion. But only because they have really good tyres on them, the stag alloys have got some cheapo ditchfinders , not ideal up an Italian mountain pass.
Plus, being Stag wheels, they are not entirely round.
There is a long term plan on wheels, but not really affordable at he moment!
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Quoted from Flying Farmer
Don't know what is normal. Since the engine in my TR was my 1st Stag engine I assumed they all do that. Gentle braking on a downhill road would lose the oil pressure if the oil was half way between max and min.
Admittedly the engine in the TR is installed more level than the usual Stag installation which is raised at the front which probably accentuates the oil surge problem. Taking no chances I baffled the sumps of my next 3 engines.
Might be worth checking the dipstick. A very slight bend in the stick can make a couple of pints difference in the oil capacity due to the fact it is entering the sump at a 45 degree angle. On one of my baffled sumps I didn't align the hole in the baffle correctly and had to bend the stick slightly and I was amazed how much difference it made. Had to move the max and min marks by putting it in another engine to establish the proper max oil level.
The dipstick angle theroy might be good. Whos to say there was any level of accuracy on this.?
Anyway, sump removed, baffles installed, pickup tube replace as a precution (sucking in air?) , rod and main bearings replaced (just as well as some down to copper) and reassembled. Ive run it, but not road tested it yet. (many other parts missing)
While i was there i couldn't help myself and had to wash off all the underseal etc around that area. Im pleased with what was underneath. All very original.
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Quoted from Flying Farmer
Had the same problem with my Stag engine TR. Ended up cracking 2 main bearing caps after my first ever track day.
Subsequently I have welded a plate across the sump pan at the height of the shallow part of the front of the sump, just leaving a hole for the oil pick up and the dipstick.
This seems to prevent oil surge even under serious track day abuse provided the oil level is kept to the max mark. Have now done all 4 of my Stag engine sumps.
Neil
Clearly a good idea. But what im experincing is not normal. This is just having to stop quickly as one ofte does when sharing the roads with muppets.
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Quoted from esxefi
change the oil pressure switches around and see if it then does it on the other car,one switch might activate at a higher pressure even though they might be the same part no.
Ive got an oil pressure gauge connected at the moment, on the problematic one. And the other has always had one.
It literally drops to zero if the braking is from a reasonable speed.
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Quoted from JohnD
Oil 'slosh' in the sump.
Just like you, under braking inertia seems to force everything forwards (Newton's First Law).
LIke the sixes, a Stag has a reduced hieght front to the sump pan, deepr behind where the oil collects and the oil pump sits.
BUt under braking the oil, which when hot has the consistency of water, will slosh up on the that shallow part, get churned by the crank journals (not a good thing) and leave the pump sucking air.
The solution is baffles in the deep part, around the pump inlet.
A horizontal surface plate, at about the level of the oil when at rest, plus some vertical baffles arund the inlet.
The plate and the baffels should be held no more than a 1/4" (6mm) from the inside of the sump.
Here's a picture of mine on a six.
Also some pics that may be of baffles on a Stag engine. Looks like a V-engine, might be Ford. Don't where I got them!
For mine, I welded tabs to the inside of the sum at tjhe correct level. The surface plate slots into the tabs, which are then bent down towards the sump wall, retaining the plate. This allows later removal and cleaning of the sum, whereas the other has just tack-welded the surface plate in place!
JOhn
PS, I've since added a lip to the front of the surface plate, to abolish the gap between the that and the shallow front part.
And bend a flange around any holes , so stiffen plate and inhibit slosh through the hole. J.
Thanks for the info
What leaves me unsure however, is that my other stag doesn't do it at all - no matter how hard i brake.
So something is different between the 2 of them.
Looks like im going to have to have the sump off to investigate
Border Raiders 2018
in Border Raiders
Posted
Im up for this. Would have liked to do it last yea, but a lack of a working was a problem!