Jason C

Incredible work Matt! That’s an epic project, lots of quality work already  done. Looking forward to seeing the next repairs to the body. 🔨

23 hours ago, Dave Clasper said:

My Mk1 2 litre Vitesse, appears to have had a J type box and a 3.27 dif fitted by Canley at around the same time about 20 years ago.

Thanks for the insights and well wishes @Dave Clasper. I’m sure I’ll need luck on my side. 🙂 Wow, Canley has been around a while. A few years back I enquired about their OD kit, but they had stopped selling them at that stage. 
 

Curious, was the OD conversion popular on cars when they left the factory? Or did they become a addition years later? 

1 hour ago, glang said:

The 3.27 ratio is probably going too far unless the engine has been tuned or changed to 2500cc.

Thank you, very good information to know. 

1 hour ago, glang said:

Anyway you look all set to install OD and the only large component youre missing is the 3" shorter propshaft.

Thanks glang, typically do people have the original propshaft cut down and balanced? I guess ideally, if a spare propshaft could be sourced and that reduced, should you want to revert in the future. 

22 hours ago, glang said:

To fit your 3 rail gearbox with a J type OD isnt easy as this arrangement was only used on a few models and over a short time. I think youre going to need a particular adaptor plate to fit between the main case and the OD plus the corresponding mainshaft which is different from the standard D type version. Then the gearbox mounting is different and of course propshaft shorter...

The J-Type units are becoming harder to find, at least in New Zealand, the adopter plate being the biggest challenge. I was lucky, a fine local chap was kind enough to sell to me.

The parts for the Overdrive conversion I have so far: J-Type unit, Stanpart adapter plate (313085), mount plate and bracket, and the main-shaft. And a second hand Lucas steering wheel stalk.

I think, I still need to source: Speedo adapter and right angle drive, and the electrical cut-out switch and bracket on the remote housing and shaft.

Not sure where to buy the Speedo adapter, as I’ve read these can cause problems, wearing out if incorrect? Would I need to buy a different Speedo cable? Lastly, not sure about the cut-out switch, second hand only?

21 hours ago, RobPearce said:

Yes, a popular option because of relatively good availability, plus it's a good match. I have 3.63 diffs (and J-type overdrive) on all three of my Triumphs.

Thanks @RobPearce fascinating, as mentioned to glang I wasn’t aware this was a common conversion. I suspected a previous owner just put a random diff on or something. Would you mind going into a little more detail on why the 3.63 is good match? So I should keep the diff on the car, good for driving now and later with the OD conversion?

21 hours ago, glang said:

I believe the usual diff change on a Vitesse 2L non OD is to a Spitfire 1500 item with a 3.63 ratio which makes first gear more effective and drops cruising revs although no where near as much as OD.

To fit your 3 rail gearbox with a J type OD isnt easy as this arrangement was only used on a few models and over a short time. I think youre going to need a particular adaptor plate to fit between the main case and the OD plus the corresponding mainshaft which is different from the standard D type version. Then the gearbox mounting is different and of course propshaft shorter...

Shouldnt be any problem getting the OD overhauled by a specialist. 

Very interesting info @glang I wasn’t aware this was a popular conversion. When I first discovered the diff was from a Spitfire, my thoughts were “oh no, what’s a Spitfire diff doing on the car!”

To clarify is the 3.63 ratio diff a preferred ratio for a Vitesse than the 3.89 fitted from the factory? A good compromise between starting acceleration and cruising in 4th gear? How does it compare to the 3.89 ratio? Is the diff itself the same strength coming from a 1500 Spitfire, just with a different ratio? 

Did Triumph document diff serial numbers, I came across this but it looks to be incorrect listing the FD prefix as a 3.89 for the Vitesse, 2 Litre: http://www.wolfitt.com/numbers_and_ratios.htm

I’ve been told the 3.27 is the best of the lot, but hard to source.

Thanks

Jason

16 hours ago, RobPearce said:

When I fitted an overdrive gearbox to my first Vitesse, it was straight out of a scrap car. While it looked good, the mainshaft rear bearing was past its best.

Leads me to another question, I have sourced a second hand J-Type OD – are there typically items that should be replaced as a matter of course before installing to the gearbox? As these units are old, are most parts readily available? 

18 hours ago, glang said:

Due to these points and the cost/difficulty of finding good units some people are now fitting a higher ratio differential instead which of course will reduce engine revs but with the loss of some acceleration.

A few people have suggested this as an option – sourcing a different ratio diff for nicer open road driving. Unfortunately, my Vitesse sounds to have an incorrect diff (FD12062) - from a Mk3 Spitfire with I think a 4:1 ratio rather than the standard Vitesse 3.89 ratio. From what I gather a 3.89 with an OD would be a nice set-up. 

25 minutes ago, glang said:

There are some disadvantages to OD apart from cost although these dont normally put people off:

Cant use any additive in the gearbox oil as this could affect the OD clutches,

They can be unreliable although this is often due to electrical faults,

They consume quite a bit of energy so the fuel saving is arguable,

Small chassis Triumph OD boxes seem to wear out quicker than non OD,

They add quite a bit of weight and size to the gearbox so making installation and removal from inside the car harder,

Their overhaul is usually a specialist job.

Interesting points @glang thanks so much for sharing. Very helpful understanding the pitfalls, whether large or small before converting to an OD.

With reliability, is there a common fault with the wiring that typically occurs, any methods when installing to prevent? Or is this due to wear and tear overtime.

By energy consumption, being a more complex system, ultimately requires a little more fuel to run?

Have you found gearbox overhauls more frequent through everyday driving with an OD fitted? Side note: my existing gearbox needs an overhaul - noisy in gears except 4th - hence wanting to convert to OD at the same time. Sadly, have a potential head gasket to deal with first. 
 

Hadn’t thought of the overall unit being more cumbersome for removal. The OD itself is quite a beefy unit. Plus removing some of the tunnel to accomodate.  

Thank you 

56 minutes ago, RobPearce said:

I would say, from my experience of Vitesses and a GT6 with both D- and J-type, that a well sorted D-type should engage in about a quarter of a second, where a J-type may take half a second.

Great detailed info @RobPearce - for a newbie like me a negligible performance difference.

1 hour ago, RobPearce said:

The column stalk is just at your fingertips, always ready, where the gear knob one needs you to move your hand off the wheel.

Brilliant! You’ve sold me. 

Update! Not too exciting, but another little piece of the puzzle solved. Today I learnt my clips holding the brake and fuel line to the chassis are upside down.
 

A top Triumph bloke (Steve) pointed out that the brake pipe goes to the bottom with the fuel line at the top. 
 

Fingers crossed someone on this wonderful community knows how the rear and engine bay fuel line should be bent and attached. 🤞🏼

9 minutes ago, yorkshire_spam said:

For any motor using an OD... GOOD QUALITY EP90 GL4 compatible gear oil. Regular changes. 

Maybe think about modified wiring so that fuse/relay can be added for safety and confidence. (If using stick selector switch they can fray/chaff through!)

Excellent, quality oil and a regular maintenance schedule. I was on this train of thought with oil. A local chap with an admirable collection of Heralds and Vitesse's told me to be very particular with gearbox oil - using something too modern, can give trouble with gear selection?

Great tip! Will remember to include  a fuse in the system as a safety precaution if the wiring fails. I have heard the drawback with the switch on the stick - the wiring being the weak point. For some reason I’m sold on the steering wheel switch, I think I’d like it’s location and I prefer the look of it. The gear stick switch feels more modern in appearance. 
 

10 minutes ago, yorkshire_spam said:

I run a J-Type in my 1500 Spitfire and occasionally there's a slight delay to engage, but to be honest you'll just be so happy at having an overdrive the minor differences of A/D/J/P type probably won't bother you!

Some of these vehicles actually have "old fashioned" automatic gearboxes, but the paddles allow the user to select rather than the ECU automatically selecting via the solenoids etc. It's a manually selected, epicyclic gear train, hydraulically operated system 🙂 

Wow, sounds fantastic - enjoyed reading that! Im usually enjoying the sound and scenery, a little delay is not a worry. I wasn’t aware there were so many flavours of OD, quite a fascinating invention. 

Very interesting about the modern paddles, I was fooled into thinking they were “high tech”, some brands do a good job on marketing them, in sports models. 🙂
 

2 minutes ago, glang said:

Never heard of that and thinking about it they probably didnt do it because you cant tell as easily if the OD is engaged or not....

I’ve read Volvo used the Laycock OD too for many years, not sure how they handled the change. 

Thanks all, really enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts on the Overdrive.

Sounds overwhelmingly positive, are there many if any draws backs?

- Must do’s when rebuilding a second hand unit?

- Ongoing maintenance? 

The OD sounds more flexible than a 5th gear - why did car makers phase them out? Assume once more motorways were built, the 5 speed gearbox become expected by consumers, and more cost effective to manufacture? 

On 30/11/2021 at 23:58, glang said:

Ive always fancied trying OD operated by one of those floor switches that traditionally cars had for dipping the headlights. Seems the most sensible to me as then theres no need to take hands off steering wheel but the only problem might be the space available in the footwell of my Vitesse or, for that matter, other small chassis Triumphs. Suppose it might also need a dash light to show whether its engaged or not....

Interesting idea @glang do you know if any other car manufactures had this set-up? 
 

I found it interesting that some modern cars have the gear change ‘paddles’ by the steering wheel, to mimic formula one I think. Similar to the Triumph OD steering wheel switch. Everything old is new again. 
 

Here’s a tricky question, preference for a Vitesse overdrive control, the steering wheel switch or the gear stick?  

On 29/11/2021 at 15:29, tr250 said:

The later J-Types build pressure when engaging with the switch so it takes a sec or two.

Very interesting @tr250 so a J-Type overdrive is a little slower to engage? Is it noticeable? Does it feel kind of like an automatic delay (sorry newbie here)?
 

From what I gather the Vitesse 2 Litre would have originally had the D-Type, but I’ve sourced a J-Type as several people mentioned they are a stronger unit after refinements and easier to source.

On 30/11/2021 at 10:52, Bish said:

I love the overdrive on my Sprint. As others have said cruising in third round the bends flicking in and out of overdrive is a joy. I also enjoy accelerating hard in forth and flicking the overdrive in which means you don’t lose revs like you would changing into fifth with a clutch. But I guess it’s not doing the overdrive any favours?

I converted my MK1 Vitesse to overdrive too. Best modification you can make in my book. Worth every penny. 

I too thought I was going to break it somehow, and was a bit forgetful with it at first, always leaving it in at roundabouts etc. My advice is to drive it don’t be scared of it. You will get used to it! It soon becomes second nature to flick it out of overdrive when necessary. 

The extra MPG is most welcome of course, especially with petrol prices as they are. Just under £1.60 per litre of super unleaded round these parts now! 

Appreciate your thoughts @Bish - by the sounds Overdrive is a wonderful addition to driving a Vitesse and solid enough to learn on the fly! Reducing fuel consumption is another bonus too. 

On 29/11/2021 at 04:35, RobPearce said:

I've quite often forgotten to switch the overdrive out when slowing for a junction. It's not a problem - the inhibitor does it for you, and you only notice when you've pulled away and accelerated up to change into 3rd, when you get 3OD instead. At that point you either flick it back out to get acceleration or smile at the Vitesse's lovely wide torque curve that means your mistake doesn't matter.

Like Rutty, I also think OD is even better than 5th gear because you can keep your foot down while it engages.

Sounds great @RobPearce Overdrive sounds versatile and forgiving. 👍🏻

On 29/11/2021 at 02:05, Rutty said:

I can't see a point of a light on the dash but its your car and if that's what you want to do then go for it.

Thanks @Rutty appreciate the advise, no doubt you’re right! And a random hole in the dash for a bulb, no thanks. 🙂 

The more I learn about the OD the more excited I get! 

Such a beautiful restoration, hadn’t heard of the Hurricane (great name!) until watching the video. Congratulations to Kevin. 
 

Sorry don’t want to bore people, but a good area to find products and techniques is within the car audio space, you might not want to build a monster sound system - but the same techniques apply. This chap goes to great lengths to reduce rattles etc. I would caution, always wise to think long term serviceability. 

I’m also considering Dynamat, however it seems a little over priced and I’m not a fan of their logo being plastered everywhere on the material. Yes, I understand it’s hidden behind panels or carpet, but have a preference for plain black. After some research I found a local product (sorry think shipping to UK would be pricey), in plain black for a little cheaper. Long story short, try looking around for alternatives, there is another product made in Australia. I  suspect many companies are outsourcing production and applying their brand to a very similar butyl product. 
 

I plain to be strategic in application, some people cover entire floor pans, which is not required for an effective deadening barrier. I also don’t want it in any locations that cannot be adhered perfectly, or where I suspect water ingress could occur over time between the butyl and the steel. It’s hard to remove too. I would love to apply to the internal door panels, but unfortunately my car has uneven rust protection - hard to apply smoothly. 
 

@Ben Hutchings Think it’s a fantastic idea to apply a butyl product to the boot surface in a GT6, to improve cabin acoustics, by dulling the reverb from the sheet metal. If you have a carpet, mat or similar, have you thought to sew an acoustic barrier beneath? This will also dull another frequency of noise. Have you done the doors? 
 

The methods modern cars use to reduce road noise is quite fascinating. It’s becoming a big topic as cars move to electric, more cabin noise is apparent. BMW etc use different foams to absorb different frequencies and mics to discover sounds, rubber to isolate noisey components etc. Wheel arch material to reduce tyre noise etc.

A bit far for a classic car, but I think good science and techniques for ideas. Cost effective methods for reducing cabin noise is always a win for the driving experience.

Lovely work! Just purchased a a similar stainless one from Canley’s, although not with the stainless bjango bolt - which is great idea!