McJim

Uh, the entry list says "reserve list" which might have something to do with it. Wouldn't worry though, there's at least one crew who have entered twice. Jim.

Pm Keith for your best chance of success. For some reason all my details transferred across with no problem. Jim.

Had already checked that I could log on to the new site a couple of weeks ago, then submitted a test entry to see what was required, then sat at my computer watching the clock with all my details ready and debit card lying beside me. I think I am one of the most organised people I know - or the most anal! Look to the left, we already have a team logo! Jim.

Including someone who's entered twice! To be sure, to be sure. Jim

Reading back issues of Club Torque! Jim.

4 team No. 11 and 2 team No. 10. Gremlins. Keith will sort it out. Jim.

That's fair enough - good on them. Jim.

Got Car No. 4 I'm doing the Round Britain with my daughter who just passed her driving test 3 months ago. Woohoo! Jim.

How come 3 crews managed to enter before 19:00? Jim

Very high. Jim.

Cute.

Or you could have .... "We'd look great if we were just standing here posing in our Y-fronts!" Jim.

That awkward moment when no one can think of anything to say. :) Jim.

It's only an observation. If we have a severe winter, the cold air and snow come down from Siberia in the east. If the eastern Alps are basically free from snow at 9000 feet up at this time of year, such as at the Stelvio, we tend to have a milder winter. Whether it's reliable or not, we'll have to wait and see but it has been in the last few years. Jim.

Stelvio was dry and snow free yesterday. Today is different. This is the latest I've ever seen the Stelvio open. Mild winter for us then? Jim.

Ferny, Do you do the RBRR for the finishers award or for the personal satisfaction of a job well done. I think for both of us, it would be the latter. And turning up at the Plough the following morning to be a "finisher" is a non starter. If that were possible, then why not turn up a week later at the Plough and claim to be a finisher? The permit for the event will have a start date and an end date. Turning up after the permit has expired the following day and the event has officially finished, how can anyone expect there to be someone there to sign there book? The RBRR runs from Friday to Sunday. If you can't get round before closing time at the Plough, then no one should expect to qualify as a finisher. Jim.

In these days of appeasing the MSA, okay, complying with their rules  :), setting official time limits when controls close and penalising crews who don't visit the control on time is, in my book, a road rally. While it may not sit well that crews who miss a control are still regarded as finishers, it must be allowed to maintain the non competitive nature of the event. The official club line, from what I remember, was that the route in the roadbook is advisory and, again, no penalty is imposed if you don't follow the exact route. In the days when I ran La Carrera, the route was always advisory as to impose a set route and an entrant had an accident due to you "forcing" him to use that particular road opens up a legal minefield if it wasn't for having the protection of a Touring Assembly Permit from the MSA and the insurance back up that comes with it. For that reason alone, for CT to inject or even infer a competitive element could easily invalidate the Touring Assembly Permit and leave the club liable. Jim.

As an organiser running an event on a Touring Assembly Permit such as the RBRR, you can't penalise crews for not visiting controls outwith a set time period. That would make the event into more of a competition, which the RBRR is not. The main reason for the event is to get a Triumph from London to John O'Groats to Land's End and back to London in a notional 48 hours but no penalties can be imposed if they miss out a control due to a breakdown for instance or helping a fellow crew get their car running again. As long as they reach the four main points of the route, then they would be deemed to have completed the RBRR. However, missing out all the other controls other than the start, finish and JoG and LE would be outwith the spirit of the event. There is no prize for coming back first to the Plough and I've yet to see who the first crew were at the finish on the Forum although it was posted in another place. CT go to great length to point out to all that this is not a competitive event. Any introduction of a competitive element such as penalising crews who miss the odd control would invalidate the Touring Assembly Permit. That's why there are finishers awards and not prizes. Jim.

mikew wrote: ah, a bit like Dolly the Sheep then ?  ;D Don't you bad-mouth my sister! Jim.

There have been suggestions about moving from the Plough as it's ownership is changing, if not on this thread, then elsewhere. The "problem" with the route starts after Pimperne. If, after Pimperne, the route headed north rather than north west and avoided Didcot, then further alternatives would be possible. In previous years, the route stopped at Fleet on the M3 but complaints about the length of time spent on the M25 and the traffic problems that arose led to a more northerly approach. The same may be relevant today. On another point, the route in the roadbook is not part of the legend. The route in the roadbook is not written in tablets of stone as we've been told many times that taking an alternative route is not penalised. Both times I did the RBRR, I was stunned by the amount of cars at Blyth who had started after us. They had taken the M25/A1 route direct to Blyth avoiding the A10 and Royston. Those who rigidly follow every road and junction are in a very small minority. Perhaps it's my past rallying experience that sees a sting in the tail at the end of an event as a challenge and not something that should be removed because, on some occasions, it can cause a problem when there are alternative routes available. Those who went through Chinnor seemed to avoid the worst of the traffic. Modern technology allows advance warning of these hazards and preplanning for alternative routes for the more than likely problem locations with traffic gives crews the chance of circumventing difficulties. It should be noted that doing the RBRR is a lot more than making sure that the car is reliable. Familiarity with the route and possible preplanned route alternatives at the usual problem areas can prove invaluble on the day as I found out myself. Jim.

First, I wouldn't eat the pies at Stirling. Why do you think that Scotland has one of the highest rates of heart disease in the western world. My point on the traffic conjestion is that it is part of the challenge of the RBRR. It's a difficult part of the RBRR, just like the M5 "wall" and should be treated in the same way. Please remember that the original idea of the RBRR was to go from London to John O'Groats to Land's End and back to London in 48 hours. Dropping one of the original locations, because it's a wee bit hard to get to now doesn't justify it's omission. By the second day, Land's End is hard to get to through fatigue but I don't see anyone on here calling for it to be removed. The RBRR has a long heritage, London, John O'Groats, Land's End, London. To change any of that dilutes the challenge and diminishes the event. By all means move the start and finish but they would still have to be within the M25 to qualify as London. The problem has always been that no matter how well you may benefit from a well located start in London, it will be poorly sited for the finish. Didcot, while an excellent control stop is in an awkward location when you look at the possible route options to get back to the Plough. It's too close to London to enable a more north westerly approach route avoiding the M40 corridor and all the large towns in the area. Even if you started in the South Mimms area, you'll still have problems as you get closer to London. There is no magic bullet solution to this one. Just grin and bear it. Jim.

mikew wrote: I hope this is the real McJim, good to have you back No, I'm a clone, one of 300. We're like the Spartans but guarding the gateway to our sovereign nation at Gretna Green. Come on up if you're hard enough! No, not that kind of hard!  Put that away before you have someone's eye out! ;) Jim.

Don't understand the point of this thread. 2000 miles round Britain and some traffic difficulties reaching a destination near one of the most conjested cities in Europe and folk are whining? Why not get rid of that long drive down to Land's End from Gordano when everyone hits "the wall"?  That's a difficult bit.  We could lose that. Or what about the slow single track bit round Loch Naver which takes a lot of time or the other slow bit over Dartmoor?  We could lose them too. Face the fact that this is a unique event in this day and age. We drive on motorways, dual carriageways and single track roads. We drive on deserted roads in the middle of the night when it's well past our bedtime. No one moans about these difficulties but a bit of traffic and there's complaints? You get the chance to drive in just about every traffic condition and just about every type of weather that can be thrown at you. A bit of conjestion is just the same. All part of the challenge of the event. Replot your route if you run into traffic. We're all big boys and girls and we're allowed to make our own decisions now. I'd change nothing. For me, driving in heavy traffic is something I don't get to do too often but when it happens, I find another route. Didcot to the Plough? Just another part of the RBRR legend. Jim.