McJim

And this posted by a John Davies on his Facebook page.  Ironic doesn't even come close. https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/01/houston-police-chief-art-acevedo-trump-mouth-shut-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/?fbclid=IwAR0KXMXw1jBDhTi37q-0CQELAxUAMh51PNi9dIY9Fqz9eqaPa1ZuU4fla7w

Mike, As for "silly input", I had to check myself to stop me putting into print what I think of this guy. Every RBRR year, it's the same "tiredness" nonsense from this guy before some other person, who should know better, starts trotting out drivers hours regulations for HGV drivers ad nauseum. He has no interest in the event, won't take part in it, isn't even a member of Club Triumph and pontificates as though he is some legal expert intimating that Club Triumph would be legally liable if there were some sort of incident when anyone who has taken part in the RBRR or any motorsport event knows that you sign an indemnification form saying that you are responsible for your own actions and the club is not responsible for your actions i.e. driving while tired. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but if you have no interest in taking part in the RBRR, then they should keep their opinions to themselves rather than dissing the Club's premier event especially when they are not even a member of this club. "Silly input" indeed. You're from Yorkshire, man. You should speak bluntly and tell this guy where to get off. If you come on here as a non member and slag off this club and it's premier event, you should expect a sharp-tongued response. Jim.  (No prisoners taken.)

Well I was wondering when the bi-annual whinge about tiredness on the RBRR would be posted by JohnD - and here it is. A person who has frequently made us all aware over many years that he would never enter the RBRR as he considers it too dangerous. A person who is not even a member of Club Triumph but takes it upon himself to state the bleeding obvious that driving while tired is dangerous, something given great prominence in all the information supplied by the organisers of the RBRR. Before you all get hot and bothered that I'm doing a character assassination, consider this. I have no interest in ever going angling. Every year, more people are killed in angling than in motorsport. I am not a member of an angling club, yet, even then, I don't feel compelled to tell every angler that what they are doing is potentially dangerous - because it is bleeding obvious. I don't feel the need to tell an angler that the thing he loves to do is dangerous - I'm not an angler - I have no interest in going fishing. So why would I want to tell someone doing the RBRR, that loves doing the event, that it is dangerous - if I have no intention of ever taking part and have no interest in the event. You know, all those guys doing circuit racing would be a lot safer if they all went a bit more slowly, or even very slowly, or didn't do it at all.   Then they would be really safe. If you've no interest in angling, don't feel the need to criticise angling. If you've no interest in circuit racing, don't feel the need to criticise circuit racing. If you've no interest in the RBRR, don't feel the need to criticise the RBRR. Your comments fall on the ears of intelligent people who have the ability to think for themselves, assess the risk and get on with their lives and your misgivings will be given the attention they deserve.  As they always have been every two years.  It won't stop a single person from taking part in the RBRR. So why bump your gums? The best part of all this is, that the forum has such little traffic, few will even read this thread. Jim.  (Never went fishing in my life as I consider it could be dangerous - but then everyone knows that without having to be told.)

If an e-mail from Tim Bancroft doesn't have the works "Crikey" or "Blimey" in the first line, then it's not an e-mail from Tim Bancroft. Jim.

Sitting here watching the News and they've just announced that 28 people died in England in the last 24 hours. Let's not kid ourselves, this is going to get incredibly desperate with that number rising exponentially. Just look what's happening in Italy, Spain and France - that's what we're in for. Even the Olympics are postponed for a year and here we are hoping against hope that we'll be able to run a classic car run across the country just a few days after the MSA may, and I stress may, start to issue permits for events. It makes me start to wonder about the viability of the RBRR in October. It don't look good folks. Jim.  

Why not wait in case it has to be postponed again to a date you can make? Will be getting too close to the RBRR if it's postponed any later. Can always use the route in 2021 since all the organising has been done already. It won't be the end of the world even though Katy and I were really looking forward to the run. Jim.

That might be difficult. They were on the old forum as well. Jim.

Keep it simple, stupid. We don't need an all singing, all dancing set up. Think about it. How many of us use all the obscure functions on Excel or Word? Don't reinvent the wheel. Look what works and is well used by those who it is aimed at and go down that road. Keep the forum and the website separate for quicker responses. What I can see now is not a website and forum designed by committee - that worked out well, didn't it but now we may end up with a website and forum design to incorporate every little whim put forward by folk with no idea of the impact their preferences will have on the speed of the forum, it's ease of use or functionability on smart phones. So, can we have the final decision made by those who know a good deal about IT and not repeat the mistakes of the past. Jim.

Ha ha.  Very funny. Picking up the Spitfire tomorrow morning complete with rebuilt engine. Feels like Christmas when I was a kid. Only one more sleep. Thank you Santa, I mean McFadden Classic Cars. Jim.

However, a car is strongly recommended. Jim.

Chris, I've found the provisional route in the pictures section to the right but no sign of the regulations. You've written "To download the regulations click below." but there's nothing to click. Jim.

And, eh, to do what exactly? That's kind of my point. I actually have access to and use a vehicle tracking system in my job. It is professionally hard wired into all our vehicles with the attendant software to go with it, yet it still doesn't lend itself to be of much use in a car club run. This is an argument that will have us going round in circles ad infinitum - but with the right technology, we can be confident that we will be able to track our progress even if the gathering of that information is as futile as this discussion. Jim.

Are there any special arrangements going to be in place at the start in honour of Derek Pollock? I was thinking along the lines of all the crews on either side of the exit road at Knebworth from the start line to the first junction applauding Derek's car as it passes. If Ellis and Dale were to start 10 or 15 minutes ahead of the pack, we would all have plenty of time to get back to our cars. Footage of  Derek's car passing between two rows of appreciative crews would make a memorable video record of the moment in Club Triumph history. Any thoughts? Jim.

Rob, Hardly a Luddite. I work with computers and IT systems every day. I just don't see the relevance to the RBRR. Okay, you've got all this tracker information and you've got all your early arrival times. Good for you. Now, what are you going to do with it. Is there going to be some poor soul sitting at a computer analysing all this information for 48 hours as the event progresses? Do you really think there is going to be some poor soul sitting at a computer analysing all this information for 48 hours as the event progresses? And do what exactly with all this data that will be of more benefit than the existing tried and tested system? And what are you going to do with the "Luddites" who don't buy into this? Force them to download this onto their own smartphone? Force them to buy a smartphone if they don't already have one? Exclude them if their tracking device doesn't work? Have "live" exclusions from the event if someone arrives early at a control, even if they've had problems at Loch Shin and "cut and run" down the A9 to Stirling? There's a place for tracking and barcodes in motoring events with big budgets such as Le Jog and WRC events. It is not necessary for what is basically an extended Club run. As I said before, sense will prevail and the organising committee will run another brilliant RBRR. And remember gentle reader, all this hi-tech stuff came from the same people who thought it was a good idea to position a control on a motorway off ramp, in the dark, with an ever lengthing queue of Triumphs building up, extending down onto the slow lane while the glitches in the tracking system are sorted out or while some hapless crew member tries to find his dropped smartphone in the dark from below the passenger seat. Not everyone is adept with smartphone technology or computers and the non Luddities should be a little less condescending, thinking that technology will always make things better. Jim.

I think one or two people are confused, thinking that the RBRR is a rally with all their concerns with timing, early and late arrivals and even exclusion from the event for arriving too early. I, for one, am not having a "black box" in my car recording my position on the event, so how are you going to "track" me? If I'm forced into downloading an app, the second I'm out of Knebworth, it'll be turned off. And how do you track someone and monitor their arrival time at controls if their battery goes dead? Do you know, in all my years in motorsport, I've never had a pencil and a piece of paper "die" on me.   Many of the marshals are not in their first flush of youth and may be reluctant to marshal if all this new tech is thrust upon them.  And it's not as though we've volunteers flooding in with offers of assistance. The RBRR is a reliability run, not a rally, not a round of the World Rally Championship, it doesn't need to go hi-tech, which is part of the charm of the event, two blokes sitting at a table signing roadbooks and recording who has visited the control.  Not the exact second they arrived in the control area but the time they presented their roadbook to them. And what about connectivity.  It's been a few years since I marshalled at Carter Bar and we had trouble getting a signal, so forget about 5G.  Much of Scotland, for example, doesn't even have 4G. And after all, Club Triumph doesn't have a great record in introducing new tech to the Club - just look at the Forum. I know I'm wasting my time writing all this. It's like having an online argument with total strangers about politics - completely pointless. But I have the comfort in knowing that the organising committee of the RBRR have the experience and sense not to introduce unnecessary technical problems to the Club's flagship event when there have been no previous difficulties with the existing system other than a slight delay at the first control for early arrivals. From what I've read here and elsewhere, loads of people arrived early, then some complained that they had to queue and wait to get their roadbooks signed until the opening time for the control had been reached.   The whole idea of the timed opening of controls is to prevent excessive speed on the event, which it did at Wetherby, so what's the problem - it did what it said on the tin.  There were no complaints that I'm aware of queueing at any other controls. Just because the RBRR or the 10CR or the Historic Counties don't go all hi-tech, I wager that the Club will not suffer as a result. We don't need a "results service" on these events to run them or even enjoy them, which is the primary function in having these types of event to take part in. No one will be saying at the end on the 2020 RBRR, "Ah, I would have enjoyed the event more if I could have tracked my progress in the car as we drove round." I enjoy a bit of banter with my friends who marshal, some of whom I don't see from one RBRR to the next.   Are we going to let an app take that away? I certainly won't. Jim.

Thank god that the RBRR is in safe hands. Jim.

Probably the most sensible words on this thread. Jim.

Mike, No criticism of you at Wetherby, never saw Jane and we went the wrong way in the service area concourse and had to turn round and turn to the left to find you. You must admit that 125 plus crews all arriving in a short timeframe will lead to queues, so perhaps another two marshals signing books would not be a bad thing. We ended up running at the back of the pack and we lost a rake of time at Wetherby, arriving at 21:30 in the car park and never made it up that night on the way north and slipped further back. Everybody, bar us, must have gone like a bat out of hell to reach Wetherby so quickly, a lesson we'll be taking on board for next time. The control was supposed to open at 21:13, so you must have processed a lot of crews in a short space of time, which shows your level of experience on the RBRR controls.  There is no magic solution to this conundrum. The first control will always be the busiest. How the Club deals with that is the real trick. All this barcode nonsense shows we have a lot of "experts" with little or no knowledge of the organisation of a large motoring event. I can see you now Mike, running around in the pouring rain, hunting for entrants cars in the motorway service area, looking for the barcodes on the cars, in the dark, with everyone's barcode in a different position or not even on the car cause the crew either couldn't be bothered (those without a road atlas) or didn't have time because of last minute problems with the car (those who forgot their road atlas). As for setting up a control on the motorway slip road, in the dark, words fail me. I feel that any future reading of this thread by me will infuriate me with half baked ideas and nonsensical suggestions put forward. I'm now waiting for the satellite tracking systems to be installed in all cars suggestion - it's only a matter of time before some genius comes up with that. The RBRR works - it doesn't need radically fixed. Leave those who are organising it, to get on with it in peace and keep silly suggestions to yourself. Second rant of the night over. Jim.

Colin - you are being humourous here.  Aren't you? There are things called Motorway Regulations where you aren't allowed to stop on the motorway except in an emergency.  50 cars queued back down the slip road onto the slow lane - in the dark - what could possibly go wrong? I read yesterday of a crew arriving 30 minutes before the first control was due to open and they weren't even in a powerful car.  So how exactly would you slow cars down on a motorway or dual carriageway? I'm sure Club Triumph has spare cash to set up bar code readers and all the technology to handle this in an event that only runs once every two years.  And what if the phone you're using has an issue?  Back to paper and pen for the remainder of the cars and now you have two systems in operation to record the cars, then wait till the information can be extracted from someone's phone some days later when the information is of no value. I said it before but it obviously hasn't registered. KEEP IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE There are many people on here who don't even use Facebook and you would expect them to have either a barcode reader supplied by Club Triumph or a smartphone that Club Triumph will have access to. And how exactly will the barcode on the car system work at controls at say, John O'Groats or Land's End where the marshalls don't even see the cars? KEEP IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE Mark's suggestion is probably the best solution and have more marshals signing roadbooks, reducing the time that crews are stuck queueing at the first control.  Once you're through the passage control at Carter Bar and into Scotland, the crews have become reasonably spread out and queueing is no longer so much of an issue. We were running late and spent 25 minutes at Wetherby last time, pushing us even later into Carter Bar, after looking for the marshalls then standing in a massive queue of well over 100 people. Controls, other than passage controls, should have access to toilets, not everyone has the desire to disappear behind a hedge - there are quite a few non male participants nowadays, and the access to hot food is always a bonus. The venue has to be able to accommodate the number of cars and as the popularity of the event increases, the number of venues able to cope reduces. The control location should, ideally, be next to a petrol station or at least have one relatively close particularly on rural night sections. The control should also be easily accessible without a mammouth  country drive to a location with no facilities and without having to have 125 plus cars with their tired crews crossing a gap in a dual carriageway to get back onto the route. So before anyone else comes up with "I have a cunning plan", think it through. Is it safe? Can the event be accommodated? Are there facilities on site? Does it entail changing all the arrangements that would be in place at all the other controls for one location only? Does it add complications to the running of the event? Will it cost more to do your suggestion? KEEP IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE Rant over. Jim.

I'll bet you a Pony that you do! Jim.

That would be a nightmare to organise. Cars turning up at Wetherby when they were supposed to stop at Blyth. Yes, that would happen. How many people turn up at the start with a sat nav and no road atlas. Totally unprepared and blindly following the cars in front into the wrong control. When you're organising an event or rally, there is a cardinal rule.  KEEP IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE. Introduce unnecessary difficulties and brace yourself for the mayhem that will inevitably follow. I speak from long experience organising events. Jim.

You're kind of stuck no matter what you do. 125 cars are still going to be fairly well bunched up until they start to pull over to refuel on the A1(M).  Even then, they'll be pretty close together until you hit the A68. You don't have many options, Grantham before Blyth and the entry will arrive en masse within the space of 15 minutes.  Blyth will have the same problem but at least there will be spectators and a great atmosphere. Wetherby will, hopefully, be dry next year (does it rain often in Yorkshire?) and will be a better location as a result. Your only other options are Ferrybridge, which is slightly off route with a less than straightforward route back onto the A1(M).  We ended up heading east along the M62 in 2010 and we had planned Ferrybridge as a fuel stop. The other option is Scotch Corner about 200 miles into the route where the entry will have started to spread out a little but now you're encroaching on Carter Bar. There are no other obvious locations that can cater for 125 cars at short notice.  None of the garages or smaller rest stops such as Leeming Bar have enough space.  Although I did notice last time that the petrol station at Barnsdale Bar had an adjacent and easily accessable adult store next to it and it was still open as we filled up. Wetherby might be the option that you have to take.  It has plenty of space but a tank trap as you enter the car park.  How many exhaust systems were sacrificed that night? Personally, I would go for Blyth.  I could easily forgive the lack of space as a pay off for the atmosphere and the popularity of it for spectators.  No other stop comes close to the number of onlookers along the entire route. Jim.

Mike Charlton told me that Blyth had expanded yet I can't find any information on it. Even the company's own website makes no mention of it. Anyone local who can confirm that Blyth is now also on the west side of the A1(M). Jim.

Would be good if it was. Plenty of atmosphere and spectators that seemed to be lacking at Wetherby. I hear that the services have expanded on the west side of the A1(M) which could give us more room. But it's early days yet and I'm sure they'll be quite a few changes and additions that are in the process of being organised. Jim.

Watched the website from 12:00 with only a 40 minute break to go pick Katy up from her office party at 2:00. Was about to give at 5:00, then noticed a certain Timbancroft61 had logged on and thought "Why is Tim on at this time in the morning.  He must know something." Tiredness was about to overtake me and I'd set 5:10 as when I would go to bed but one last refresh and the much waited for "ENTER" button was there. Entry filled and payment accepted by 5:15 and off to bed as lucky no. 7. Team Scotch Pie Hunters are on their way. Jim.