Do New trunnion's leak oil? - solution is?

[Benjamin Swatton]

My spit mk2 has a trunnion with 2mm vertical/lateral wobble -I suspect this is to much can anybody confirm?

However the American triumph forum mentions the new trunnions (that have been cheapened up with a 2 part assembly differing from original )  leak oil out the disc seal on the bottom and or they blow out when oiling up  and need epoxy sealing before first use -this is a disgrace on a highly critical component 

So anybody here in UK finding same problem? I presume all UK suppliers have the same sub standard trunnions for sale?

[Dave Clasper]

The actual trunnion is the brass? bottom section (never heard of it being two parts?) is just one piece. The other section above this, is the vertical link that threads into the trunnion as the steering is turned (or something like that).

I did epoxy my replacement (in case it leaked). Some folk solder them, I think.

Yes, many repro parts are sub standard (though often, relatively very cheap) and is often a right pain.

Cheers, Dave

 

 

[Benjamin Swatton]

Ah thanks Dave , yes the brass item,

Most photos of new brass trunnions conveniently  don't show the offending alteration but according to American forum the new ones are bored all way through and a thin steel blanking disc factory pressed in at bottom of trunnion to seal the bore hole. I presume you mean you epoxied the blanking  disc in as per the American forums. 

So have you lubed the trunnion with oil via the grease port and your blanking disc did not blow out so it was a success? 

I was toying with soft soldering in the disc as you mention but wanna be super careful with stressing such a critical component.

 

so people here too are epoxy in and soldering. 

I presume your epoxy workied

[edh]

if they are like the trunions on the TR6 and GT6, i believe they all had a crimprd bottom disc. I understand rhat some aftermarket parts are prone to leaking.  Solder is a good fix.

Ed

[Benjamin Swatton]

I wonder how this sort off substandard part occurs, is it because :

1)part manf renegades on spec for part to maximise profit

2) part suppliers don't want to stump up full cost of original spec part to minimise cost of part inventory stock and design/request redesign to cheapen up

3) Supplier thinks customers won't pay for original spec part so redesigns a cheaper solution

personally I suspect no. 2 - As I wonder how many of these parts for small triumphs are being shifted these days and I don't think MOTS would pick up on worn trunnions (mine wasn't! ) so there's probably lots of blissfully unaware owners out there ..and lots of trunnions sitting on the shelves gathering dust which the supplier wants to tie the minimum amount of money up in.

 

 

 

[glang]

How much does the bottom of your wheel move when jacked up off the ground? Is it possible that the vertical link thread isnt engaged in the trunnion as much as possible? Unfortunately to check this youve got to undo the bottom bolt which can be rusted into its bush however that    has be done to replace the trunnion anyway...

[Dave Clasper]

Epoxy still ok after 7 years.

The oil normally exits from the seal at the top of the V.L when full.

Myself and a fair few others have dicarded the often leacky/messy grease guns and simply removed the grease nipple/blanking screw and used a pump/trigger oil can (some have used a syringe apparently). Jack the front end up to ease the suspension load. Also if the top seals are new or very good, then a loly stick etc, pushed up the side of the seal, opens it up a bit and allows the oil to flow more freely through the trunnion.

[Benjamin Swatton]

Yes I did wonder about that and will check as you say

[Benjamin Swatton]

Did you epoxy the outside bottom of the trunnion or carefully inside ?

 

[Ed H]

If it is like the trunnions on the GT6 or TR6, they have a crimped in steel disc at the bottom.  If they leak, soldering is a very good way to seal them. 

Ed

Edited May 27, 2021 by Ed H

[DVD3500]

I was just going to ask for someone to post a picture... 🙂 Thanks!

 

[glang]

And I wouldnt complain about sub standard bits too much. We're lucky to get these bits at all!

If they have to make them slightly different from original its better than for some other makes of classic cars where the bits are unobtainable. How many of those trunnions do you think they sell in a year nowadays and still the price is reasonable - imagine the equivalent bit for a classic Ferrari🤪

[DVD3500]

I really wish we had clauses like in the US and UK in Germany that a car after a certain age does not require too much scrutiny at the MOT (or equivalent).

Technically, if you don't replace a part with original, OEM or replica part you car is not allowed on the road (mildly oversimplified/exaggerated).

If you do modify a car the TÜV (MOT) engineer has to "test" and certify it.

I have spoken to nearly a dozen of them and like anything else, they all have fairly differing opinions.

One guy even claimed he would not certify anything that had not run for at least 10000 km on the Nürnburgring!  Others were more forthcoming... but it is a long, boring and frustrating process.

The thing is, once something passes, just like your driver's license, it is valid forever.

Problem is the parts are so niche I doubt anyone would go through the expense... It also seems to be a very German (and partially Austrian) problem.

Part of me was thinking maybe there would be a legal way to get a car registered in say, Luxembourg but I haven't gone down that path much.

I have written to a few suppliers in the UK asking if they would like help in getting TÜV approval but none have responded so far...

My fear is that these cars may die if we can't find some sort of compromise.

There is a group here fighting for recognition of "rolling motorized heritage" to try to get exemptions but most of them are purists and by nature against using non-standard parts...

*sigh*...

 

 

[glang]

Yes we are lucky in this respect in the UK and all I can think is that theres some very highly placed politicians who are into classic/vintage cars (and Im only half joking here!) which makes them sympathetic to the issue...

[Dave Clasper]

On 27/05/2021 at 17:10, glang said:

Yes we are lucky in this respect in the UK and all I can think is that theres some very highly placed politicians who are into classic/vintage cars (and Im only half joking here!) which makes them sympathetic to the issue...

I think that's a lot do do with it.

I epoxied from the out side.  Easier, and no possible reaction?, from the oil.

Have found some stuff, doesn't hold up like it used to, Contact adhesive and liquid metal epoxy springs to mind.

Dave

 

[yorkshire_spam]

My 2p's worth...

1) Expensive option: Just go trunnionless

2) Controversial option: Use Land Rover "1-shot" swivel housing grease. It's a special grease formulated to replace EP90 in Series/Defender swivel housings.

I used option 2 for years before I invested in the trunnionless kit.

 

[Dave Clasper]

9 minutes ago, yorkshire_spam said:

"1-shot"

Does that mean it never degrades/goes hard?

[yorkshire_spam]

8 minutes ago, Dave Clasper said:

Does that mean it never degrades/goes hard?

I believe that's the theory. I never had any issues with it and the threads on the trunnions and uprights were fine when I replaced them - I just wanted the peace of mind of the trunnionless for the 10CR

The one-shot grease is described as:
STC3435
One shot gives ‘filled for life’ protection
> Formulated for all leaf & coil spring Land Rover, Discovery and Range Rover models - 1951 - to date.
> Lubricates swivel pins and housing seals, protects spheres.
> A semi-fluid grease designed to withstand shock loading in oscillating joints.
> Reinforced with solid lubricants, highly resistant to water and salt corrosion.
> Better lubrication while driving, less leaks while standing.
> One shot gives ‘filled for life’ protection.

Land Rover originally specified ep90 for the swivels and it was "superceded" by this stuff.

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by yorkshire_spam

[bim]

have used one shot for years never had a prpblem

[Benjamin Swatton]

The solder technique seems the best my only worry is heating up the part and weakening it. I've now inspected my trunnion and links ,both trunnions are manf type with steel disc on bottom stamped L or R they don't leak ,  I dont think they are OEM parts

[edh]

Heating to soldering temperatures won't hurt the brass.  The part has to be pretty clean, though, with all grease or oil removed.

Ed

[Benjamin Swatton]

Having just bought new trunnions,  I am going to return them as I have found some good used originals that gave the same amount or less play than the new ones!

[Benjamin Swatton]

New trunnions may however have slightly less end float in threads as I have noticed when pushing or pulling on new v old trunnion's however the difference is slight may 1 or 2 thou and i suspect more a manf. Tol variance.

Photo of various trunnion's Including 1 new - I will be going with the unbranded one that came off my car as still the best overall!

I have had a closer look at the new examples and I'm fairly certain the end caps won't blow off these as the swageing is well formed -see photos you need to look carefully as daylight between  ruler and swaged edge proves they are not parallel but bent inwards which is what you want - note how R trunnion has flat end cap and is very well swaged over but L one is domed  hence ruler at angle.

[Benjamin Swatton]

Having looked closer at the unbranded used trunnion removed from my car that I was going to reuse I have now changed my mind and will fit new...

The reason is shown in 1st photo -the unbranded item is fundamentally different in that it has a much larger bore diameter above top of thread - this is NOT as per triumph OEM/new parts

Having taken a load of measurements - I conclude this is not a good idea as explained below with ref. To attached drawing

The unbranded trunnion is shown in yellow and is missing the orange portion that the OEM/new part does have.

The red is area where the OEM/new trunniln reacts a side load at the end of the VL shank (eg. When driving  round a bend) ie. The shank takes the shear load = good

The unbranded trunnion is missing the orange area and hence does not touch any part of VL shank except the threaded portion in grey meaning the thread region reacts All the shear load = bad

The green area on the threaded portion of VL does not interface with trunnion at all irrespective of whatever trunnion is fitted -this was no doubt intentional as this area is already under high stress as this is where the max bending load is exerted on thread during side load  and thus is the area where the thread will break which is even more likely as the VL thread often corrodes here as well...

So in summary -I'm using a new trunnion, I will zinc primer the VL shank all the way down to the end of the green portion of the VL thread  to reduce risk of corrosion setting in and causing cracking.

Third photo shows point at which green ends ie. where trunnion threads finish acting on VL(not primed down to there yet)

Fourth photo is what i think is the approx 6-7.5mm correct height for trunnion on VL without binding steering, this does vary with VL side and trunnion due to manf. Tolerance variation. Although this does compress the seals more, an EP90 oiling test via nipple show that oil can still be blown past seals and without blowing the trunnion bottom cap out. Although you could put trunnion on one less turn, by calc the shoulder in bore trunnion would then be too far out to engage on VL shank so not transferring any load to shank. Last photo is how far trunnion is in to the seal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by 13254
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