Starter motor woes

[RobMoore606]

On Friday I drove for about 10 minutes before realising the starter was still engaged it smelled quite badly. I thought all would be fine save for a drained battery and since it has been awkward to turn over but still started, till I got up for work that is. So I rang the good peeps at the graveyard who are able to provide one at a very reasonable cost that should arive tomorrow. In anticipation I removed the one from the car, I am amazed looking at its condition that it was even doing its job.
This is it fresh off the car.

Its quite dirty at the spring end and the teeth look to have seen better days, you cant see from this pic but there is a chunk off one of the teeth and I found 2 small strands of wire in the spring. Looking at the gap in the cover at the other I am not surprised 2 of the bushes don't move freely.
I had to work to work this morning (dizzy)

[SpitNoir]

Hi Rob.
Evidently it was just taking itself apart in anticipation of your changing it out to a new model.
Just trying to be helpful perhaps?

Was it acting up prior to it's demise? Or did it seem normal right up to the end?

Thanks

Paul

[junkuser]

For the Bendix to have stayed engaged it could well be a solenoid or wiring problem rather than a sticking Bendix.
Solenoid sticking or power to solenoid wiring remaining live due to shorting in its power supply or switch not disconnecting.
Worth checking if the Bendix is not obviously jammed in the engaged position.  
The damage to the starter motor could be secondary.

[RobMoore606]

@ Paul it was giving no signs of going but she does start better than ever now.

@ junkuser, yes I agree, I think the root cause is a sticking ignition switch as I noticed it does not always return from starting point, I will have to be midful of this untill I can figure out how to fix it.

I got this from Spitfire Graveyard and all is now well.

Must say what a very pleasant business to deal with

[SpitNoir]

Is it considered normal (or just common) for the starter to disengage the instant that the engine even thinks about firing up?
Most of the older cars I'm familiar with (Sprite/Midget/MGB) had this characteristic, but it seems more likely due to a weak starter engagement, than it would be by design.
Is it proper then? Or just a sign of an old weak starter?

Since the car starts immediately most of the time, this is not a huge issue. But on those occasions when it's feeling recalcitrant, it can make starting a long, involved process.

Thanks

Paul

[bodders1]

3040 wrote:

Is it considered normal (or just common) for the starter to disengage the instant that the engine even thinks about firing up?
Most of the older cars I'm familiar with (Sprite/Midget/MGB) had this characteristic, but it seems more likely due to a weak starter engagement, than it would be by design.
Is it proper then? Or just a sign of an old weak starter?

Since the car starts immediately most of the time, this is not a huge issue. But on those occasions when it's feeling recalcitrant, it can make starting a long, involved process.

Thanks

Paul

Yes, this behaviour is perfectly "normal" for a car fitted with a bendix-style starter.  As soon as the engine is turning faster than the starter wants to turn it, this causes the bendix gear to retract from the starter ring on the flywheel.  If the engine subsequently fails to catch, you get that characteristic noise of the starter turning without a load.

Yes, this can be a sign of a weak starter - in other words turning slower than it should, and not imparting enough momentum to the engine to get it to catch properly.
You can also get this problem, however, if your timing or mixture are not correct, or if one or more spark plugs or leads need replacing - such that, when cranking, the engine fires on one cylinder and then misses the next one or two.  As soon as it fires on the first cylinder the flywheel accelerates and the bendix disengages, but if there is no combustion on the next compression stroke, the engine will stall and you will hear the starter whirring away....

[SpitNoir]

Thanks bodders. Some good additional info and ideas there.
Since there are definite ignition advance issues, and perhaps even other ignition related issues I haven't discovered yet, that would be a good place to start.
Certainly the carburetion can act up at any point in a seldom-driven car like this, where the carbs have not been serviced in awhile.

Right now I don't seem to have any advance at all, and the timing is reading 35 degrees(!) BTDC at any given time. The reason I haven't dug into it farther yet, is that, to my mind, it is not acting like it's that far advanced. In other words, the starter spins the engine over very easily (sounding anyway) and it idles and runs decently well until higher revs. Kind of what I would expect for too little timing advance, rather than too much.

I won't get into it any deeper here, as I'm about to start another thread regarding just that subject.

Thanks again.

Paul