Mr Elsie Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hi.. Been having an intermittent fault with the ignition that has now turned permant. It was originally thought to be an earth issue but I've now replaced an existing earth cable that went from the starter motor to the suspension mount. I've also replaced the power cable to the solenoid and cleaned up all contacts.Basically I turn the key and I get a click from the solenoid. any ideas?To determine if its the ignition circuit is there any easy check I can do? Rather frustrated at mo as just got it back from fixing sticking valves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hello Mr Elsie, it sounds like a starter motor problem if all earth and power connections are sound, although it is possible that the solenoid contacts are bad? Have you got a meter or even a bulb and some wires to see if the starter is getting power to the motor. Also it's possible the pinion is stuck in if an early inertia starter or the battery is quite flat.Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elsie Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Should I have an earth strap from the actual starter motor?I think I'm getting power to the starter motor as the wire gets warm if you keep the ignition engaged. Not sure if it should. Will check with a lamp though to be sure.Starter motor is less than 12 mths old and was working on Saturday.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Hello Mr Elsie, it's not usual to have an earth lead to the starter directly, merely from the engine to the chassis, often by the engine mounting. If the cable to the starter is getting hot then there's current flowing Is it an inertia starter or a pre engaged,If the former the pinion may be stuck in the flywheel, put the car in top gear and rock it back and fro, this usually disengages the pinion. Is the battery fully charged?Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacy Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Hi,Check the battery votage at the terminals when trying to turn the motor over. It shouldn't fall much below 11- 11.5V. If that's OK, check the voltage at the starter motor when doing the same. If your getting full voltage there then there is a problem with the bendix gear (if it's an inertia starter) probably sticking as previously mentioned.If it sticks regularly, don't be tempted to lubricate with oil or grease as this will have the effect of slowing the throw out of the bendix gear resulting in nasty noises as it hits the ring gear. You should make sure the gear teath are clean and undamaged with no burrs on the teeth and only lubricate the bendix with a dry lubricant such as graphite powder.If you're not sure which type you have, the later pre engaged will have the solenoid piggy backed onto the casing of the starter motor. An inertia motor will have a seperate solenoid fitted elsewhere which can be found by tracing the thick positive cable back from the starter.If it is an inertia type and you're cranking voltage at the battery is OK but not at the starter motor, check the cranking voltage on both of the big terminals on the solenoid. It should be the same both sides. Any differance will be caused by either a poor connection to the solenoid or knackered contacts inside the solenoid.While there may be some vehicles with a seperate earth to the starter motor, there are also many that rely on the earthing through the motor casing so you need to ensure all your main earths are clean and tight.Lacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elsie Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Inertia it is... Will go back over all connections and earths again... Plus charge the battery as I've been turning ignition on and off for some time now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hello Mr Elsie,older inertia starters had a cap over the end of the spindle, remove that and try and turn the spindle, you may need a spanner for this. That will tell you if the pinion is engaged or not. If it is, unscrew it, turning the opposite way than it normally turns. This is what I would check first.Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elsie Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Spindle turns quite freely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hello Mr Elsie,in that case the pinion is not stuck in the flywheel. See how it is with a fully charged battery, if you still just get a click from the solenoid, it's possibly the solenoid itself, or the motor even if it is relatively new, the brushes may be stuck?Look for the other post in this section regarding starter solenoid problems.Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elsie Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Had the starter checked today and all is ok. The guy did indicate that I didn't have a insulating washer on and I'm wondering whether its as simple as that. If not solenoid is the next thing to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hello Mr. Elsie,I find that strange, you say that the motor was checked as OK, yet the man who checked it says there is a missing insulating washer? Now if this washer is important, and I can't see why it should not be, why did he say the motor is OK?Inertia starters have the power connection coming though the motor end plate and it is insulated from the body with a sleeve and insulating washer. If that is the washer he's referring to then it's possible for the connecting lug to short to the motor body. Therefore the starter will not work and you risk ruining the battery? A new starter would not have this washer missing I would have thought?Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Triumph provided a manky length of mesh as a engine earth from block to steering rack (!) but best if in any doubt is block to bulkhead not chassis. Battery is earthed to bulkhead and chassis is isolated from that by rubber washers on the body mounts. Best lubrication for Bendix (inertia) gear is graphite powder. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elsie Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 I had removed the washers when I took the starter to him.. I may have inadvertently not put them back on when I replaced the cable from the solenoid to the starter. In my niavity I had assumed they were just washers and not relevant to how the power is sent to the starter. Will know quite soon when I put the non metallic washer back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hello Mr Elsie, the insulating washer should be retained by a slim nut that is not normally disturbed, The cable lug goes after this nut and a spring washer and nut is used to fasten the cable lug. If you don't have this inner nut then the connecting stud will be straining the internal connection to the starter motor, when you loosen or tighten the cable.Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elsie Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Success! A single washer put back on and all ok. Still think there is a loose connection around the back of the key but for now I have a car that works... Thanks for the thread responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkshire_spam Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 My Spit is exhibiting similar symptoms - so this thread is getting saved to help me when I get around to trying to diagnosing it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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