Jonny-Jimbo Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Hi all,I need to change the pinion oil seal on my mk1. I noticed the other day there was a small bit of oil under the diff that seems to be leaking from the front where it meets the centre piece of the subframe. I'm hoping it hasn't knackered the bearing too in the process.Anyway, can anyone tell me the dimensions of the seal I will need? There's a really good bearing and seal place near me, so I was hoping they can supply something that would suit.Thanks, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I have always used Chris Witor for these, he sells the OE leather pinion seals.Probably has washed the oil out of the bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 In my (limited) experience the leather seals leak and the modern rubber ones don't.If your quill shaft has the decent RHP bearing fitted and it's still quiet and smooth, it is possible to gently prise the seals out with a small screwdriver (you only need to move one) to check whether there is still grease present and add more if needed. If the bearing is knackered, buy the proper one from Chris Witor (cheapest source I've found for the RHP bearing) as the alternatives only last a few thousand miles.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 Damn, so it's probably not going to be a diff out - diff in job then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Jon the bearing is in the nose piece, only takes 20 mins to change the bearing. (circlip out, drift out drift in, circlip in)The seal is more of a pain to change, I find you have to beat it and lever it out. Once you get the diff & nose piece off the car, allow 1-1/2 hours to swap the two parts.Of course, if you have a lot of backlash, you might want to speak to Marcus about an exchange diff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 Thanks Richard, but the oil seal I needed to change was the one in the front of the diff, where it meets the central bit of the subframe.I have ordered a seal from CW. But I wasn't aware there could be an issue with it washing the grease out of the Quill shaft bearing too, unless I have completely misunderstood which seal it is I need to change etc...The diff backlash is fine, but the Quillshaft has a bit of a knock on it.I think I'll get under the car on Friday (booked the day off work to get more spanner time before HCR) and see exactly what's what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Jimbo, ift end bearing when oot aint got excess play,then drill a wol init, its just a plastic cover.then squrt grease in thru a grease gun or what ever,then re seal wol, simples.there 3 types of seal,single lipdubble lip, cant recall woe I got thee,s frae, they were ona stand at stonehenge showand the leatherleather, dubble lip great if thera groove worn int quill bitas they cover a bigger area.leather, soak it in warm oil fora few days, let it soften / swell upquite a few ive been tek,n t,bits are full of oil int quill bit,im actually think,n if a hole drilled int bottom will let the oil oot,then it wont wash bearing grease away,!!M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Jon, the seal is in the diff where it meets the nose piece. 137346Separate the diff from the nose piece by the 4 bolts to access the seal (BJ606111) Personally I prefer to drop the whole rear end as a unit and then dismantle on the ground. You can take the diff off separately but you then need to take the nose-piece off afterwards to change the bearing.Carefull of the springs if you taking the dampers off the trailing arms, as the dampers keep the springs under tension.The bearing is in the nose piece and is greased (sealed for life) 134466. If its knocking I suspect the bearing is shot.(Pictures courtesy of Standard Triumph & Rimmers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 I'm guessing to do the diff oil seal I'll also need to undo the nut on the front of the input shaft, part 159394 on the drawing above? Then remove the washers and shims etc too? Not as simple a job as I was hoping for it seems.Thing is, as it's peeing oil out where the diff meets the nose piece I don't want to just top the diff up and then take it apart before RBRR, but with only two weekends to do all that and more before HCR I may be hard pushed to get it done...I know taking the diff out won't take too long as I put new mounts on two years ago, so it won't be all seized up, I'm just not sure how long it'll take to get the nut off and then spend ages trying to get the seal etc out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 No, you don't have to disturb the nut. Just dig the seal out (which can be awkward enough) and fit the new one. If using a leather one (don't like'em myself) then it needs to be soaked in oil at least overnight.Do not be tempted to leave the quill shaft bearing as it is. The leaking gear oil washes the grease out of them and while it also does a perfectly decent job of lubricating them, when you remove the supply by fixing the seal, the bearing soon dies. As I said above, if otherwise good it's perfectly possible to repack the bearing with grease.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 Cheers Nick,I don't know the 2000's as well as I'd like yet, well, the back end on mine has given relatively little trouble in the 5 odd years I've owned it...Sounds easy enough to swap over, and a friend of mine as a load of tube and a CNC so if needs be I can make a tool to press the new seal into place. I have a new back plate gasket too so I can clean the diff out etc at the same time.I'll check the front bearing etc too in the nose piece, but if that needs doing I may just buy the new central section from Chris Witor if the bearing is on the way out too.Actually... somewhere I had some sealed RHP bearings that came to me from a bloke that used to work at the factory... I could never work out what they were from, but hopefully I still have them and they're for the quill shaft!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Drifting the seal into place is not a problem, levering the old one out is a PITA. I usually use a hammer, screwdriver and a chisel. The outer steel casing of the seal is tight in the diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggy Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Jonny-jimbo i recently replaced a pinion bearing and oil seal in my mk2 2500 for the first time took just over an hour once the diff is out, you will need to remove the nut numbered 510618A to drift the bearing out, to undo that nut you will need to put two of the propshaft bolts and nuts back into the flange with a strong ish bar through those bolts to hold against, while you undo that nut with a breaker bar 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Quoted from Jonny-Jimbo Cheers Nick,I don't know the 2000's as well as I'd like yet, well, the back end on mine has given relatively little trouble in the 5 odd years I've owned it... Mine gave me a crash course in pretty much all the usual trouble spots plus a few others. It was educational I'm sure but it did wear me down!Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkuser Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Are you sure the breather for the diff is not blocked, causing pressurising when hot?This can sure cause impressive leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Well, the diff is out now as is the seal. Took a fair while to get the diff out (tried to be clever and leave the exhaust on.... should have just taken it off)...Anyway, a huge flood of oil ensued after undoing the four bolts where the diff goes into the nose piece.After dropping the diff I found that there was a lot of play in the quill shaft... I think.I've uploaded a video to facebook of play in the quill shaft. The consensus there is that the amount of play I have is acceptable, those of you who can see if, can you say what your opinion is too please?https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.fallowell/videos/10154078788680802/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Doesn't look that bad. It's a single, single roll ball race so it will have a bit of rock in it.If it has appreciable end float or up/down play when the diff end is wedged to stop it moving there then may be cause for worry. Most important thing is that it turns freely and smoothly. Also, given the amount of oil found in the housing, if you want to re-use it you really need to check there is still some grease in it and repack if needed. If you prefer not to do that - renew it - with a proper RHP one unless you want to do the job again in about 3000 miles.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Mark Bland had the unpleasant experience of having the quill shaft bearing fail whilst driving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think Mr Carruthers did also...... involving lots of smoke if not actual flames......Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think it's okay, but I will monitor it carefully.There is a slight knock under the car, but after careful examination I can see that the play is in the sliding spline on the propshaft... which is annoying as it was a new one before the 2012 RBRR and the car has only done a few thousand miles since then.I have been rebuilding the handbrake too - the springs and shoes on the drivers side drum were assembled incorrectly... Now corrected with new springs and shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Yep, i've heard of quill shaft flames in Australia.Not sure what year yours is, but a common mod here is to weld a couple of supports for the late Mk2 like this - apparently the holes in the centrepiece mounting elongate over years and the shaft bearing takes the strain:Diff nose 1 by Graham Reeks, on Flickr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 The handbrake lever on the drivers side was jammed solid too. Could explain the 'only-occasionally-operable' handbrake too! I need a new rubber gaiter for the underside of the handbrake lever / cable, but I'll get one on order today.Greeks - mine is a 67, and I've heard of adding those lugs. Chris Witor sells assemblies already done. I might get one from him after HCR but before RBRR so I know I have a good assembly in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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