lnpab17 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Just bought 4 times 5 litres of Smith & Allan 20W/50 on Ebay as it said in the listing "suitable for cars requiring API SF oil". When it arrived there was no mention API SF on the label, or indeed, any other oil rating, Just 20W/50.Have I been done? It seemed like a bargain for £46, & API SF is the same rating as Duckhams Q that I have been using for about 20 years, but can't find now."If it don't say it on the tin, it don't do it"!Or am I wrong?My complaint got a reply basically repeating the listing description, which doesn't prove anything.As a Power Seller my potential neautral feedback would probably not make it past Ebay.As always, I suppose it's a case of "buyer beware" & if you can't read the label, assume nothing!Cheers, Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Here we go:http://www.smithandallan.com/prodpage.aspx?id=2515and contact details:http://www.smithandallan.com/ask.aspxabout us:http://www.smithandallan.com/about.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnpab17 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Yep, that's the stuff!If it meets an API standard I would expect it to say which one, if any, on the container.In my experiance, the only oils that don't state the API standard on the container, are the cheapest & lowest quality ones which don't even attain the lowest API rating.If you have a quality selling point, why wouldn't you proudly point it out on the product label?Cheers, Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Ping them a message asking those points. I;m sure they will be happy to clarify things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnpab17 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Apparently they get their base oil from Shell & their additives from the Worlds largest supplier, but this doesn't mean their oil has been rated by the American Petroleum Institute as SF, or even SA, SB, SC, SD or SE.I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it & will keep you posted. Just repied to their email with the following enqiry.Hi Joe,Am I right in assuming that this oil has not been API rated, but has been manufactured by yourselves to a standard that you consider to be equal to API SF?Because of the postal charges it is not economic to return the oil.For the last 20 odd years I have used Duckhams 20W/50, which clearly states API SF on the container, suggesting that the American Petroleum Institute has tested it & given it this rating.Yours, Peter Burgess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnpab17 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 I received my reply below. Comma Classic specify that their 20W/50 meets API SE, which became obsolete in 1979, so I still don't understand why an API SF which became obsolete in 1988 is too out of date to be verified.I appreciate their willingness to reply to my enquiries, & I will use the oil, but I've no way of being certain of what I'm using. I'll take my guidance in future from what it says on the container.If their new products have the relevant API rating on the container, then I'd buy from them again as their prices are competitive, & their after sales service is also good.lo Peter,The testing sequence for API SF Service Classification was superseded in 1989 by API SG Service Classification hence the testing sequence is obsolete. The modern additive systems therefore tend to be tested and approved to modern specification and generally are backward compatible.We have never and will never manufacture anything that we "consider to be equal" to a performance requirement. All our formulations are supplied by the same global additive manufacturers as supply all the major lubricant companies and are tested prior to release by our QA procedure, which is ISO 9001 certified. As you know we have been manufacturing lubricants for well over 85 "odd" years and our knowledge and professionalism has enabled us and our products to prosper in a very volatile market and we are proud of our heritage as can be seen in the fact our brand is still available where many others have totally disappeared or are all but extinct.If you have any doubts as to the quality or performance of any of our products one of our technical team will be only too happy to talk to you and answer any doubts you may have. Please feel free to call them on 01325 462228.It is purely a marketing strategy that has lead to the labelling of all our products and few of them carry an API rating, or any other of the hundreds of specifications which are applicable, as you can appreciate each individual customer may be looking for an individual rating, and to list them all on a label would be impossible.Please be assured, the product you have is suitable for use where an API Service Classification SF is required and the fact that it does not state this on the label does not mean that it is an inferior product and only suitable for supermarket shelves, which incidentally, Exxon Mobil one of the worlds largest lubricant companies have a very large business running into billions of US Dollars supplying supermarkets with own brand products.I hope this is of help Peter and once again thank you for your custom and please do feel free to contact me further if I can be of any further assistance. We are keen to make sure you have confidence in our product so you can tell all your forum friends that our products are worthy of consideration.Incidentally I have passed on your comments about labelling to our Marketing Team who are about to launch a dedicated Classic & Vintage range as I feel customer feedback such as yours is very important and suggestions such as yours need to be considered.Kind RegardsJoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 3756 wrote:If you have any doubts as to the quality or performance of any of our products one of our technical team will be only too happy to talk to you and answer any doubts you may have. Please feel free to call them on 01325 462228.Incidentally I have passed on your comments about labelling to our Marketing Team who are about to launch a dedicated Classic & Vintage range as I feel customer feedback such as yours is very important and suggestions such as yours need to be considered.Kind RegardsJoe.Direct number to the technical people, Can't ask fairer than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbetty Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hi PeterI must admit I find the whole subject of motor oil very confusing, I am very new to owning a classic car and learning as I go along. When carrying out my first service I noticed the great void in oil prices. I wasn't sure if I was buying a Quality product or just paying for the name. In the end I opted for Smith & Allan for a few reasons , I know that the Vitesse that I now own has been running for at least the 11yrs on Smith & Allen oil . I also live near to the company and know they have a good reputation in the area and I suppose the biggest influence was the low cost of the product. There product dose not have a global company name , it isn't in a old style retro can and it dose not have classic car pictures on it ,does this make it less of a quality product ?Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oggi Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Just my experience with Smith & Allan, I have always found there products to be of excellent quality especially there version of Waxoyl which is a lot cheaper but I personally find it better to use.As I say these are just my experiences and I have been using there stuff for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR7th Heaven Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I'm also impressed with Smith & Allan. Looking forward to seeing a dedicated range for classics.Rich ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnpab17 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 I wasn't sure if they were going to great lengths to NOT say yes, without saying no.If I buy a leather belt, coat or watch strap, I look for the leather mark or the word LEATHER.If I buy jewellery, I look for a Hall mark. Their absence doesn't prove that they are inferior, but their presence assures a certain level of quality.I believe that by law, a product label has to accurately describe the contents.What is omitted from the label is often as important as what is included.When buying from ebay I always try & interpret the information that's NOT given.If the mileage isn't mentioned, I assume it's high.If the number of owners is deleted, I assume there to be many.If the lenth of MOT is not given, I assume it's short.If it says "good condition FOR ITS AGE", I assume it's rough!Your input is appreciated, & the oil will probably be fine, but it is much cheaper than the other oils who make a point of saying they meet API SF. Putting that on the label is an aid to sales & a guarantee of a certain level of quality. So like the leather mark or Hall Marks, why would you not use them if you are allowed to. To me it doesn't make commercial sense!Sorry if I've trodden on any toes.I'm a synical, cautious old so & so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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