Colin66 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I recently bought a Vitesse MK2 (1969), a lovely car, but try as I might I cannot get the overdrive working.When you flick up the lever on the steering column you can hear the relay and the solenoid click. I checked and adjusted the solenoid lever arm so the holes lined up, but it made no difference. (the solenoid arm does move when you engage overdrive)The gear selector switch wasn't engaging, but I've fixed that and anyway it didn't make any difference, the solenoid and relay still clicked before I fixed it.The solenoid clicks in in any gear including neutral when the steering column lever is moved up. I am assuming it is not an electrical problem as (again an assumption) the whole point of the relay, switches etc is to bring about the movement of the solenoid arm which it does. Is this correct ? It is a concern that the lever makes the solenoid click whatever (if any) gear you are in as I thought it was supposed to work in 3rd and 4th only.Anyone any ideas? It's very frustrating. It's a great little car and I'm very happy with it, but would love to have the overdrive working.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/infodatabase/overdrives.html&xsl=infodatabase.xsl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 the awitch on the end of the remote is there to protect the overdrive, it should be set and operate to cut the supply to the solenoid relay when in any gear other than 3rd 4th.if yours is allowing all gears you have a good chance this also operates in reverse...this spells disaster..if you reverse the car the slightest with OD engaged you will wreck the one way clutch internally and the overdrive will fail to operatesorry tahts not good newsPeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Mike Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Is there enough oil in the gearbox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin66 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 1337 wrote:http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/infodatabase/overdrives.html&xsl=infodatabase.xslThanks I'll try what is says when I get home.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin66 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 peterhlewis wrote:the awitch on the end of the remote is there to protect the overdrive, it should be set and operate to cut the supply to the solenoid relay when in any gear other than 3rd 4th.if yours is allowing all gears you have a good chance this also operates in reverse...this spells disaster..if you reverse the car the slightest with OD engaged you will wreck the one way clutch internally and the overdrive will fail to operatesorry tahts not good newsPeterThanks for your reply.I don't think it's engaging so hopefully :) it is something else, but maybe the previous owner already ruined it. Any ideas why the gear selector switch makes no difference? The switch definately works as I have tested it and the switch is definately on in 3rd and 4th and off in any other gear. Perhaps there is some short circuit somewhere or a dodgy relay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin66 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 523 wrote:Is there enough oil in the gearbox?Will check that too. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 if the relay is operational when on the 1st2nd side of the gear change 'H' gate then the switch is failed (but you have tested that as ok)its not adjusted and the cam is not pressing the switch plunger enoughthe wiring is incorrect and the switch is bypassedthere are a number of ways to wire this all up , some use the switch to break the relay feed, the earth to the relay,the solenoid feed so can be a bit mix and match of which logic was used I hope the OD has not been wrecked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin66 Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 523 wrote:Is there enough oil in the gearbox?Well I said I'd check it, but actually realise I don't know where the gear box oil plug is or how to check the level. None of the manuals helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin66 Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 peterhlewis wrote:if the relay is operational when on the 1st2nd side of the gear change 'H' gate then the switch is failed (but you have tested that as ok)its not adjusted and the cam is not pressing the switch plunger enoughthe wiring is incorrect and the switch is bypassedthere are a number of ways to wire this all up , some use the switch to break the relay feed, the earth to the relay,the solenoid feed so can be a bit mix and match of which logic was used I hope the OD has not been wrecked I am going to order a new relay, it must be knackered as no matter what the solenoid clicks when you move the lever.One really stupid question. What position should the steering column lever be in to engage overdrive. I was convinced it was up and now I'm convinced it's down.In the down position the solenoid arm is pulled in the direction of the boot.Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I've never quite understood this paranoia about overdrives being immediately destroyed if the inhibitor switch doesn't prevent them switching in in reverse.In fact, to actually operate, the overdrive uses hydraulic pressure, generated by a small plunger pump operated by a cam on the gearbox output shaft. Therefore, the gearbox output shaft needs to be turning at a certain rpm before there is enough hydraulic pressure to engage it. I suspect you'd need to get up to somewhere in the region of 5 - 10 mph (forwards or backwards) for this to happen. That's quite fast in reverse......What IS a big risk in this regard is if your overdrive sticks in for mechanical reasons and remains engaged as you come to rest. Reversing under those conditions, or even rolling backwards will cause serrious damage as it forces the one-way roller clutch in the overdrive the wrong way, which will kill it. You'll likely be aware of a problem as the car will be reluctant to go back. Once this damage is done you'll either get no drive at all or the impression of clutch slip, worse in the lower gears. So obviously it is highly undesirable that overdrive can be selected in reverse (and the inhibitor switch system should be mended to prevent this) but it doesn't spell certain and immediate death for the overdrive.As to the original problem, if the solenoid is definitely operating and moving the lever, then either adjustment is incorrect, oil level too low or there is an internal fault, probably hydraulic. I have read that the the adjustment procedure sometimes fails on well used units as they need in effect, overadjusting to compensate for wear in the internal linkage. You need to be careful about overadjusting though, as if you go too far it will prevent the coil from reaching the switch that swaps from the "pull" coil to the "hold" coil - and it will soon burn out.Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin66 Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Nick_Jones wrote:I've never quite understood this paranoia about overdrives being immediately destroyed if the inhibitor switch doesn't prevent them switching in in reverse.In fact, to actually operate, the overdrive uses hydraulic pressure, generated by a small plunger pump operated by a cam on the gearbox output shaft. Therefore, the gearbox output shaft needs to be turning at a certain rpm before there is enough hydraulic pressure to engage it. I suspect you'd need to get up to somewhere in the region of 5 - 10 mph (forwards or backwards) for this to happen. That's quite fast in reverse......What IS a big risk in this regard is if your overdrive sticks in for mechanical reasons and remains engaged as you come to rest. Reversing under those conditions, or even rolling backwards will cause serrious damage as it forces the one-way roller clutch in the overdrive the wrong way, which will kill it. You'll likely be aware of a problem as the car will be reluctant to go back. Once this damage is done you'll either get no drive at all or the impression of clutch slip, worse in the lower gears. So obviously it is highly undesirable that overdrive can be selected in reverse (and the inhibitor switch system should be mended to prevent this) but it doesn't spell certain and immediate death for the overdrive.As to the original problem, if the solenoid is definitely operating and moving the lever, then either adjustment is incorrect, oil level too low or there is an internal fault, probably hydraulic. I have read that the the adjustment procedure sometimes fails on well used units as they need in effect, overadjusting to compensate for wear in the internal linkage. You need to be careful about overadjusting though, as if you go too far it will prevent the coil from reaching the switch that swaps from the "pull" coil to the "hold" coil - and it will soon burn out.NickThanks for that info, I've nearly given up on it and will probably have to take it to a specialist. I will check the gear box oil when I work out how!! Unless someone would be kind and tell me how to. Basic stuff I know, but it's only easy when you know.The gear selector switch appears to be irrelevant with my overdrive. Even if you disconnect the 2 wires from it, the solenoid still clicks in on moving the lever on the steering column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 the oil level and filler plug is on the drivers side of the gearbox case ,about half way down the case, can be seen from below, best with the tunnel taken out,it fills gearbox and ovedrive there is only one filler,there are two drain plugscould also be worth removing the OD filter and giving a clean out I take it this is a Dtype with the pull in solenoid on the drivers side of the unit ???the solenoid pulls reawards , the arm inside the cover plate has a 3/16" hole in in, when operated the hole should align witha similar hole in the case, use a drill as a mandrill to gauge alignment.its not unknown to give the travel just a slight edge to overpull the lever a fraction more.this lever only lifts a spool needle valve to allow the pumped pressure to operate the cone clutchwhen the solenoid is at the end of its very short travel it as Nick says throws a switch in its end to reduce the 10a currrent from the pull in coil to 0.5a of the hold in coil.none of this has any bearing on yours being operational in all gears but think its time to get a manualits all doable by DIY once you have some clues about its working.it doesnt matter which way up the switch is on the column binicle some have up for high down for low its down to preference Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin66 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Some feedback on the things I have tried so far.Geabox oil level = okcleaned and checked tiny hole in valve, ball bearing spring etc.adjusted solenoid arm so holes line up.Overdrive still not working.Things left to try.Check current at solenoid terminalsreplace relay to see if that resolves the solenoid working in any gear.After that I will be out of ideas and it will be a case of removing the overdrive and stripping it down. Any advice on that procedure would be welcome, as well as anything to look out for.Thanks for everyone's contributions so farColin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefertoo Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 oddly enough,i would recheck the electrics. i assume the tunnel cover's out and if so would be easy to run a direct live to the solenoid and connect it while driving.i've had a 12v supply,relay clicking etc while stood still but not enough while driving...also i've had them stick in o/d all the time, odd as i didnt notice any probs with reverse and is still working fine now afaik....craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 if the relay clicks in all gears then its purely down to inhibitor switch operation, either mal adjusted/wired or defunct as this should cut the relay out .have you checked .or can yo feel that the actual OD solenoid is operating, I see youve checked the 'hole' setting so presume it is .do not examine the OD untill you have read the manual every time emerdale l comes on the tv .its all doableDIY given some clues and understanding first.Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin66 Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Well, I've solved the problem of the solenoid clicking in no matter what gear by re wiring it and taking out one of the switches each time. The column switch or the wiring running from it must be faulty and is earthing somewhere as when I replaced it with a different switch and wires (which is just sitting on the passenger seat for testing purposes!) the solenoid now only clicks in in 3rd & 4th as it should.However overdrive still not engaging.I will try the two valves? found on the bottom of the casing next and clean them. I haven't got my manual in front of me, but one is the relief valve, the other I can't remember possibly something to do with the pump or plunger? Anyway I will have to jack the car up to get at them. Any recommendations on this job much appreciated. Will I need to drain the oil to do this ?If that doesn't work I think it really will be a case of removing the overdrive and looking inside to see if it is damaged or seized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 can you measure the current pull on the main solenoid feed ,, 10a for about 1/2 second then 0.5amp there afterthere are two coils inside the solenoid ,so if the holding coil has failed it just wont hold in but the plunger will travel and apparently seem quite ok . worth a try before you remove the unitPeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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