General engine question

[S.Leah]

As I've posted in another thread, I'm considering Herald ownership in the (hopefully) not too distant future.

First question!

Is the 13/60 1296cc (1300 in normal talk!) engine basically the BL "A" series engine (or "A+"?), that was fitted to Minis, Minors and later Marinas and the like?

[Nick Jones]

No, not A-series related in any way though quite similar in layout.

The Triumph engine family runs something like

4 cyl
948cc (Herald)
1144cc (Herald 1200, Mk1 7 2 Spitfire)
1296cc small crank (Herald 13/60, Spit Mk3, 1300FWD)
1296cc large crank (late Herald 13/60, Spit Mk4, Toledo & Dolomite 1300)
1493cc (Spitfire 1500, Toledo & Dolomite 1500)

6 cyl
1596 (Vitesse 6 1600)
1998 Mk1 (Vitesse 2L, GT6 Mk1 & 2000 Mk1)
1998 Mk2 (Vitesse Mk2, GT6 Mk 2 &3, 2000 Mk2)
2496 2500 series, TR5 & 6.

Quite a bit of parts interchangeability between them all

Nick

[herald948]

Nick_Jones wrote:

No, not A-series related in any way though quite similar in layout.

The Triumph engine family runs something like

4 cyl
948cc (Herald)
1144cc (Herald 1200, Mk1 7 2 Spitfire)
1296cc small crank (Herald 13/60, Spit Mk3, 1300FWD)
1296cc large crank (late Herald 13/60, Spit Mk4, Toledo & Dolomite 1300)
1493cc (Spitfire 1500, Toledo & Dolomite 1500)

Missing from the above list is the original 803cc from the Standard 8 of 1953. (Oh, and it's 1147cc, of course, for the Herald 1200, et. al.)

[S.Leah]

Ah! Thank you.
I have been looking at specs and some photos and couldn't decide if it was an "A" series or just similar.
Presumably if you are familiar with "A" and "B" series then you can't go wrong with the Triumph equivalent?

Then again, being familiar with most 'traditional' engines from the 60's/70's early 80's and you can get to grips with many different makes, I guess the major differences are if they are OHV or OHC etc.?

Did Triumph ever move over to the BL series engines or did the engines and brand disappear together?

[Rallyspit]

The Herald never had an OHC engine, with the exception of a few converted by Jack Brabham, the racing driver, who fitted a Coventry Climax engine. The Triumph 948cc and 1147cc had siamesed ports (similar to the 'A'series,) but the 1296cc and 1493cc had 4 ins and 4 outs!

The only major difference in overall design are the thrust washers on the back of the crankshaft. Test these for wear by dipping the clutch. The crankshaft pulley will move noticeably if these are badly worn (or worse, have dropped into the sump). If this has happened you may need a new block. Otherwise it's a delightfully easy engine to work on. The Herald never used a BL engine, although BL used the 1493cc for the rubber bumper MG Midget, because the US market was having a hissyfit about the emmisions of the 'A' series. The only other major part shared with BL was the later gearbox which was used in the Morris Marina (with slightly closer ratios) although all Heralds had the earlier 3 rail gearbox with syncro on 2, 3 & 4)

For sheer driveability, the small crank 1296cc (Herald 13/60) is the best and is almost identical to the Mk3 Spitfire engine, and - as stated earlier - a lot of parts are interchangeable across the range. The car is well supported for spares too, although some body panels are becoming scarce.

The Triumph name was bought by BMW when BL went to the wall. There are no plans to re-introduce the brand.

[JohnD]

9999 wrote:

Did Triumph ever move over to the BL series engines or did the engines and brand disappear together?

It was the other way around, which may be where your confusion arises.    Not many Mg enthusiasts like to admit it, but when BL wanted to uprate the A-series engine of the Midget from 1275cc (Mk2) there just wasn't enough meat left in the block and the obvious answer was the Spitfire/Herald 1500 (1493cc) engine.   Midgets of that era also used Triumph steering racks.

But did the brand disappear forever?  Just look at the top of the page!

John