Spitfire Tappety Tappets??

[RobPearce]

Hmm.... 50 thou is probably not terminal yet, and may not even be too high a risk for a while. However, it's probably time to drop the sump. You can then take the rear main bearing cap off and inspect for any signs of scoring on the rear face. No marks means you've got away with it and a pair of oversize thrust washers will keep it going for a good while - which job can be done without any further dismantling. If the cap is scored, though, it means the crank has made contact and you are looking at significant engine work.

[glang]

Yes seems like a good idea as changing thrusts from underneath (even assuming theres no additional work needed) isnt a nice way of working....

[standardthread]

If you have had to change the rocker shaft, now you have found excessive end float, it depends how much time you can spare to potentially have to do the job twice, i.e. drop the sump, change the thrust washers etc., then find you haven't cured it and you still have to do, for example, timing chain and gears, and your clutch work. At least with the engine out jobs are more straight forward.

Sorry for appearing to teach you to suck eggs over measuring the end float in situ in my previous post. I should have just said DTI, you obviously have all the kit and knowledge.

[sparky_spit]

I think Rob's suggestion to drop the sump is the best way to tackle this at the moment, as well as being able to check big ends and main bearings (except the front one, as this one can't be reached with the engine in place, as the chassis crossmember is in the way), you will be able to see the camshaft lobes as well.

You may find that it's just dropped a crank thrust washer with (hopefully) little or no damage to the crank.

Its got to be worth a try? You will need an oilproof hat. Or one of those plastic shower cap things that come with ladies hair dye kits.

Edited September 5, 2022 by sparky_spit

[glang]

Must admit, maybe the suspected clutch work wont be required after the crank end float is corrected so making engine and box removal unnecessary....

[Banksy82]

Thank you all.

@standardthreadWhat you say makes a good deal of sense.

Having watched a video of someone switch out the washers with the engine on a stand at waist height and in good lighting I'm not sure I want to roll around underneath anyway. With the irritating tapping/knocking still unsolved I think a poke around would be beneficial.

With regards your previous advice no apology required, my kit and experience is not automotive related really. As it was I ended up gauging the float off the cover anyway - it was clearly over spec as I could see it move and I couldn't easily get any combination of my indicator stands into position with the radiator in place! 

 

 

[Banksy82]

34 minutes ago, glang said:

Must admit, maybe the suspected clutch work wont be required after the crank end float is corrected so making engine and box removal unnecessary....

Hmm... I can sort of see how the two possible issues may show similar symptoms. The bearing noise stopping with the clutch in and the crank pushed fully forwards... and i like the idea of a quick maintenance fix.

My worry is buggering about under the car and then needing to pull the gearbox again later... 

The car is outside and on gravel - (FOR AXLE WORK ONLY) to raise it I lay an inch thick 3' x 5' hardwood board under the car to allow the jack to roll and to support the jack stands and spread the load. 

For me to be comfortable getting under the car I will need to move it to a concrete pad that would require some fencing removal and is a bit further away from my workshop.

In my mind the engine and box would be fairly easy to remove and would allow me to work in the comfort of a dry workshop. Am I underestimating the work required to remove the motor?

 

[glang]

Youll need some sort of engine hoist but they can be hired. Probably easiest with bonnet removed but not difficult to get the lump out especially with a helper and without the weight of 6 cylinders!

[Banksy82]

13 minutes ago, glang said:

Youll need some sort of engine hoist but they can be hired. Probably easiest with bonnet removed but not difficult to get the lump out especially with a helper and without the weight of 6 cylinders!

I have a 2 ton engine hoist that I have used for many different things but never to hoist an engine!

Plan would be to lift engine and gearbox and roll car out from underneath (easier to roll the car on the gravel than crane) and then drop down onto pallet for separation. 

Would I then need to acquire an engine stand from somewhere?

[glang]

In that case the bonnet will need to come off to allow the car to be rolled backwards out of the way. The engine/box also has to be angled front upwards as it comes out although for the 4 cylinder this wont be so drastic as with the six.

An engine stand would be nice but it can be overhauled on the ground with suitable wooden blocks to rest it on. Obviously not very comfortable as you have to be on the ground with it and then working inside the block from one side...

[RobPearce]

1 hour ago, Banksy82 said:

The car is outside and on gravel

Fair enough - that does make looking up from below a fair bit more unpleasant. It's all too easy for me to forget that not everyone has a full depth pit in their garage 🤫

[Banksy82]

Just now, RobPearce said:

Fair enough - that does make looking up from below a fair bit more unpleasant. It's all too easy for me to forget that not everyone has a full depth pit in their garage 🤫

The stuff of dreams! 🙂 

[Banksy82]

10 minutes ago, glang said:

Obviously not very comfortable as you have to be on the ground with it and then working inside the block from one side...

Perfect - thank you.

I'll have a look at some parts costs and come up with a plan.

[standardthread]

The biggest difficulty you may face in getting the engine and box out is to get the slings on the engine to come out and the box to clear the bulk-head, so the solution is a longer sling on the alternator pulley compared to that at the back of the block. To give a bit more clearance the gearchange extension with gearlever should be taken off, a plastic bag with an elastic band around it should 'seal' the gearbox.

For my first engine out (previous post) was using an overhead hoist in my uncle's garage, after that I got hold of an overhead 'gantry' that can be driven through and to hang a hoist from. Mine consists of eight tubes that go together to form four splayed legs with a cross-member that bolts across the top. The hoist proper is from memory about 1 ton so your 2 ton version is more than adequate (the whole car weighs less than 1 ton).

My gantry and hoist allow me to lift the engine clear of the car (just), then put the bonnet down and roll the car back. Best done with assistance (my wife). 

I also have a trolley type hoist, and a pit (!) but given the option, I lift engines out, it's cleaner.

I don't have an engine stand, it's blocks of wood on the garage floor (as above) and hardboard to stand the engine on to keep it 'clean'.

[Banksy82]

9 minutes ago, standardthread said:

the solution is a longer sling on the alternator pulley compared to that at the back of the block

Thanks for this - really useful. I have just been out to look at the lifting points - is it best to remove the alternator or is it happy enough being stressed during the lift

[glang]

The Triumph workshop manual has it all in👍

[Banksy82]

36 minutes ago, glang said:

The Triumph workshop manual has it all in👍

Yes, I have been looking through it this evening - it all sounds so easy... we'll see!

[standardthread]

11 hours ago, Banksy82 said:

Thanks for this - really useful. I have just been out to look at the lifting points - is it best to remove the alternator or is it happy enough being stressed during the lift

Leave the alternator bolted in position or you will bend the mounting bracket/lifting eye.

Nuts and bolts that have been in situ for a long time can be a pig to crack off and slacken. Before I lift an engine if it needs work I crack off the crank nut with the car in gear, and if needed, the brakes on.

If I'm working on the clutch, or in your case crank shaft, I get someone to firmly grip the fan belt (or stiltsons around the crank pulley) whilst I remove the bolts on the clutch cover, clearance between cover and bolt can be tight here so make sure your socket fits or you could round the bolt heads (I've done it).

Edited September 6, 2022 by standardthread

[RobPearce]

40 minutes ago, standardthread said:

Before I lift an engine if it needs work I crack off the crank nut with the car in gear, and if needed, the brakes on.

Many years ago I made myself a flywheel lock out of scrap metal. It bolts in where the starter motor would go and engages on the ring gear teeth. It works a lot better than relying on the clutch and brakes.

[Banksy82]

27 minutes ago, RobPearce said:

Many years ago I made myself a flywheel lock out of scrap metal. It bolts in where the starter motor would go and engages on the ring gear teeth. It works a lot better than relying on the clutch and brakes.

This sounds like an excellent idea - I'm sure I can fabricate something.