Feedback

[Raider]

Discussion ont he 2007 route thread has made me realise that I ahve never given any feedback on the feedback if you see what I mean ;D

So, in a true spirit of glasnost attached is a summary of the feedback from 2005 grouped into section headings.

[Chriss]

Looks like I am the first to feedback to the feedback   :)

I recon that this is a good analysis to what most felt after the event and particularly those who meet at the Plough.  Well done Martin, good job as usual.

I think one point has been overlooked and that is that the routing and timing missed significant delays or holdups, which is key to our enjoyment and reliability.  This is a lesson already well learned in the RBRR and is essential to the 10CRs too.

A personal point I'd like to make from my experience is that track action should not form part of an endurance event, unless it is a specific multi-track only event.  This is because the requirements of both events are in conflict and to be prepared for both you are prepared for neither. 

CT in general is not very experienced in track events yet ,as Donington showed, and until we have built up a body of experience and knowledge of car and personal preparation we should keep the two types of event separate, exciting as it may appear to be to combine them.

It is possible to hire the 'ring and Spa....but perhaps that could be another event   ;D

[Tim Bancroft]

No way could one hire Spa or The 'Ring', the costs would be massive.

Re: Track Day at Donington.
Remember that the TD was not organised by CT, a load of us just joined Track Action. I think the aspect that you did not enjoy was the queueing, surely this was down to the open lane policy that the day was based upon.
Sure the day could have been better, but surely most had a great day's action- Donington Park in December- enough said.
The best aspect of the day was that we managed to get 15 or so CT members to a Track Day. For this Fred who worked on this in her own time must be congratulated.

I hope that we can manage to get a similar amount to Mallory Park for the TR reg. TD in early April.

Sorry to go off thread.

[Charlie]

Well looking at all the contradictory feedback, all i can see is good luck to Ellis. It's a shame we can't run multiple events through europe to satisfy all the different requests.

Well i still think whatever shape the 2007 10CR ends up being you can still count me in, as long as it involves some sort of driving adventure round europe with like minded individuals.

Charlie

[James]

If you look at the feedback carefully - it really isn't _that_ contradictory - only in so much as you'd expect for people with different views. Surprisingly most of the stuff all matches up - if you consolidate and interpret peoples comments it does say much the same thing. People said the timing was too tight, they wanted more social, time to catch up, didn't like the long over night on the German motorway - all means that the event was just a bit too hurried this time.

Everyone loved the alpine passes - but everyone thought the timing was too tight - everyone liked the alps - but people wanted more social - everyone loved the mountains - people didn't like the start at The Plough.

If you get rid of the extraneous comments (drive around Lake Maggoire being too long?! - there's not really that much of an option - and besides it was beautiful!) - I think it's quite obvious how it's got to move forward. Plus - you can't possibly please EVERYONE... and it shouldn't be tried - as long as it's the majority you're on to a winner...

Am already looking forward to 07 too!

[Raider]

Some of my feedback - I feel I can give it now I am not responsible for 2007.

Timing too tight? This time the speeds selected were lower than in 2003 and more breaks incorporated but it seems that more work still needs doing on this. Indeed I had already started on this for 2007 with sections of the route divided into two options, one of which was at a lower speed again, incorporated more rest breaks and  had one and a half hour meal breaks - surely that would have been relaxed enough for those who don't wnat an out and out bash.

For me though, I don't want more of the social element  thanks very much - two overnights is just fine. My preference is to substitute a meal with more driving.

The long overnight through Germany - yes, a difficult one that. Again, this was actually less than 2003 as then it was all the way from Lesa to Calais and then to the Plough. That really was a long haul.

An overnight drive to the Nurburging, followed by interesting driving roads in the Ardennes was a big improvement in my opinion. In fact, there was time in this section for a nap in a motorway service station.

In any event, I have to admit defeat in that I couldn't find another route that would have been more interesting driven at night  :'(

Regarding the start - well, it is a Club Triumph event and tradition counts so the Plough is spot on for me. This even applies for those of us who have a 4 hour drive south to get to the Plough before we drive back up north again on the RBRR

Mind you there was an optional start at Steenvoorde this time.

I also agree you can't possibly please everyone so I hope that the event can still offer options - for example, I will be entering the 2007 10CR determined to do the 2005 route as I wimped out on the section from the Mont Blanc tunnel to Ventimiglia :-/

Or maybe I'll just see how far I can drive in the time allowed - Sicily perhaps?

[Deleted User]

Though I didn't enter the 10CR, I've followed both the event and the post event comments with much interest.

Basically, there's nothing wrong with the 10CR itself.

It's the usual dilemma, you can please all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Despite the "no fannying about" comment put out at every opportunity, there were plenty of photos of people stopping for lunch.  How anyone can pass up the Stelvio for a plate of pasta is beyond me, but that's just my opinion.

The time schedule may have been too ambitious for some, though.

On La Carrera, I set an average speed of 30mph, which I'm sure you agree is quite low but it does allow entrants to stop for a bite to eat wherever they want without falling too far behind and still being able to catch up no matter how powerful their car is.

Keeping up a much higher average speed over so many days, in Europe, seems to be too much of a competitive challenge for many crews.

On a personal note from an organisers point of view, I thought that marking up all the maps was a colossal task bearing in mind the number of entrants.

Through experience, I have arrived at scanning the maps into a website and then the crews download them and copy them onto their road atlas or map.  This takes a lot of the pressure off the organisers and reduces the cost of the event since they don't have to buy maps for entrants who supply their own maps or, preferably, road atlases and it means that the cost of postage is also massively reduced.

By doing this, the route details can be issued much earlier, which gives people not only time to mark their own maps but, more importantly, time to become familiar with the route and the opportunity to give thought to shortcuts should they wish to "cut and run" to get back on route if they fall behind.

While some aspects of the 10CR were too ambitious for some, why should this be seen as a bad thing.  People don't seem to want to enter the 10CR if it were only a leisurely jaunt around Europe but want an event where you have to actually drive your car at a reasonable speed to get round all the route.  However, even on my 500 mile, two day event, averaged at 30mph, we have people who can't keep up either.

Likewise, this happened on the 10CR but it still didn't detract from the overall impression that I received that the experience of blatting around Europe with like-minded people in our beloved Triumphs was universally appreciated by all. 

There will always be people with gripes at the end of an event and while, for an organiser, this can be a bit disheartening after all your efforts, they can be used a positive pointer for what to do in the future even if most of the gripes and suggestions are totally unrealistic.

Years ago, I stopped someone at the end of a rally from critising the organisation of the event that we had just completed.  I pointed out the amount of work, hassle and difficulties that the organiser had to to overcome just to put on a couple of hours entertainment for his benefit.

"If you want the right to critisise, then organise an event of your own to earn that right."

A year later, he did indeed organise an event.  Afterwards we spoke about it and only then did he really realise the sacrifices that an event organiser makes to put on for a few hours amusement.  You have to give up your time, time with your family, run all round the place organising permits, printing etc.

So next time someone wants to slag an event off because there was no hot water in the campsite one morning, think about the bigger picture, about the sacrifices and effort that it took to get you to that campsite and count yourself lucky that you have people in your Club, prepared to go through all this hassle to provide you with a once in a lifetime experience.

Everyone should thank Martin for his vision and the phenomenal effort that he has expended to put Club Triumph back on the map as far as motoring events are concerned. 

You just have to look at the press coverage of the 10CR in all the classic car and motorsport publications to see that what Martin has done is to dramatically up the profile of Club Triumph in the classic car club world.

Congratulations Martin.  You get my vote for Clubman of the year.

McJim.

[Tim Bancroft]

Hear, hear McJim. I totally echo your thoughts

I think I can now count myself as a event organiser after the RBRR '04.
I do not think some entrants (a small percentage though)appreciate the amount of work that goes into sorting an event out. In some ways the effort involved can not seem worth it when one looks at the amount of time that event actually takes from start to finish. RBRR work starts on October 15th of the year before when one has to get the magazine blurb and entry form to the editor of the Club magazine.
The pressure at the start and during the event is fairly high, even with an event that is as well established as the RBRR. the worst part was when I heard that about the Spitfire that had crashed south of Lauder- I could see all sort of problems.
However despite, this the buzz I felt at the end was absolutely tremendous, I was awarded the CT 'Clubman of the Year' award at last March's dinner and the ovation I recieved from my friends and peers within the club was one my of the proudest moments.
So am I up for organising the RBRR- you bet- to be associated witha unique event like that- its an honour.

I think the only way to run/organise an event such as the 10CR is too have a team of people behind it. I believe Ellis sees it like this and has his eye on one or two CT members to help out, if asked do consider it as you will find it rewarding

So well done to Martin, top bloke or what.
The 10CR is terrific, for every one person who criticises, there are ten who are happy. Also of course the people who are critcising, if done in a positive manner, in the most show that they are interested.

Club Triumph - Onwards and upwards!

[Chriss]

[quote by=timbancroft61 link=Blah.pl?b=10CR,m=1135444402,s=2 date=1138487361]No way could one hire Spa or The 'Ring', the costs would be massive.

Re: Track Day at Donington.
Remember that the TD was not organised by CT, a load of us just joined Track Action. I think the aspect that you did not enjoy was the queueing, surely this was down to the open lane policy that the day was based upon.
Sure the day could have been better, but surely most had a great day's action- Donington Park in December- enough said.
The best aspect of the day was that we managed to get 15 or so CT members to a Track Day. For this Fred who worked on this in her own time must be congratulated.

I hope that we can manage to get a similar amount to Mallory Park for the TR reg. TD in early April.

Sorry to go off thread.[/quote]

Appologies for replying to this here, but I don't know where else to go.   ??)

The   ;D symbol indicated that I was overstating the case.  I understand MGCC will be running some continental events and if we want some foreign action we could do it as a separate event, perhaps with them or a similar arrangement to that with Track Action.

My point is that we should keep TDs and endurance events as separate events, at least until we know more about TDs, for safety.

I happend to really enjoy myself at Donington and though that is was the best trackday I had done in2005.  No criticism of the day or CT was intended, written or implied.

For many that was their first TD and from it they will learn how their cars behave on a circuit, which can be different to the road.  A car that goes well on the road may not be found to be so good on the track, particularly in the areas of braking and handling.  It will take a few TDs for members to put the lessons into effect.

I hope to be at Mallory, Triumph mounted this time   ;D  and I also hope that many others will be able to make it.

p.s.  you have to be the MSA to hire the 'Ring and Spa and they will sell you a track week end for £900 without accomadation for the privalage.  I'd rather spend the money on the car 

[Deleted User]

For my part just tell me when to turn up ,what ferries to book ,what maps to buy and i'll have two of everything accomadation and food wise and i'll see you all in 2007

[don cook1]

Yeah...you're right Doug...me as well but I don't need any notice...

[v8dean]

We all know you're a 'man of the moment', Don.

Jason, the creams not working.

Dean.

[Luke]

::)nap in a motorway service station...........Whats all this about Mr Randle too much hoty toty if you ask me :o

[Luke]

[quote by=doug_foreman link=Blah.pl?b=10CR,m=1135444402,s=9 date=1138566991]For my part just tell me when to turn up ,what ferries to book ,what maps to buy and i'll have two of everything accomadation and food wise and i'll see you all in 2007[/quote]

Does that mean you want 2 vignettes aswell Doug I will add you to my list

[Raider]

[quote by=sarah_johnson link=Blah.pl?b=10CR,m=1135444402,s=12 date=1138746337] ::)nap in a motorway service station...........Whats all this about Mr Randle too much hoty toty if you ask me :o
[/quote]

Sarah, I didn't say i took a nap in a motorway service area - only, that i thought there was enough time to do so, especially if you had taken the option not to do the "Stelvio loop" :P

As my 10CR2003 navigator says "sleeping is cheating"

So no Sarah, there was no namby pamby, airy fairy, shilly shally, fannying about from crew 1 :P


Disclaimer - Just in case anyone else has been offended by this post

"Fannying about" was replaced by "faffing about" in official speak.
"Sleeping is cheating" is not a suggestion that driving whilst tired is a good idea!
There is no slur intended on anyone who wants a more relaxed approach.


The crew of the White Tornado and myself have an understanding about a taking the mickey approach solely between ourselves and any other idiots that wish to join in. :)

[Deleted User]

[quote by=sarah_johnson link=Blah.pl?b=10CR,m=1135444402,s=13 date=1138746469]

Does that mean you want 2 vignettes aswell Doug I will add you to my list[/quote]

Quite probably , i think by then Katie will have got the bug and be coming as well in whatever triumph she has then ...so it'll prob be four of everything else