Clutch still I can't take it anymore

[Doig]

Bloody Judder still

Only noticeable when engaging from standstill. It is present from cold and can be avoided in certain driving situations. Standing on the brake and slowly engaging the clutch I have managed to recreate the judder without the car moving, so I'm certain that problem lies within the clutch not the drive train / diff /splines (would every one agree)

The clutch was recently replaced (last year) after a clearance problem. I've got a new slave cylinder a reconditioned master cylinder. When the clutch was replaced the cross shaft pin was also replaced as well as the bearing carrier. The bearing was retained from a the previous home clutch change ( a few months previously) and does howl (more of a loud whirring noise ) when the clutch is engaged occasionally. The car also has new engine and gearbox mounts.

The mechanic who has worked with these cars for years and knows his stuff has said that the newer asbestos free clutch linings wear unevenly and often judder slightly but I suspect mine is worse than most. I'd like to cover all my bases and then see if I can get a replacement job.

My suspected areas are;

1) Overdrive
Could an overdrive clutch slip cause my problems?

2) Pin in slave cylinder rod
I can wriggle this in a verticle movement but not forwards and backwards. Could this be contributing to the problems

3)Gearbox crossmember
I have just noticed the crossmember has a flater part on the top on the right side of the gearbox. Is this the correct way around (I think its meant to lean a particular way to match the slant of the engine.

4) Thrust washers
I can't budge the engine fan so I doubt its this.

If any one can help I'd love to fix this damn thing once and for all. All suggestions tips welcome. I also apologise for asking this question many time before.

[Crockett]

In my experience of O/D clutch slip, it was pretty smooth - rather like dipping the clutch pedal. Are the engine mountings okay? You did say they'd been replaced but if they are weak they can cause judder on drive take-up.

[heraldcoupe]

Are your engine mountings in good condition?
Is the engine backplate straight?
Cheers,
Bill.

[Doig]

Engine mounts are in good condition. Replaced only a few months ago. I can grab the engine and shake it without it wobbling excessively (the car does though)

What / where is the engine backplate. It sounds difficult to replace, if it can be done.

Thanks Guys

[Spitfire2500]

It's already been said but worth repeating. Check engine mounts and gearbox mount are actually OK. The general pattern parts you get these days can be pretty awful in my experience -- well worth paying extra for OE spec.

The other stuff you mention seems OK so I'd also be tempted to check the engine backplate and in addition: check the run-out on the flywheel and also check to make sure oil isn't getting onto the clutch from somewhere.

[Spitfire2500]

Oops -- your post overlapped with mine.

Engine backplate in simple terms is behind the flywheel. Gearbox will need to come out to access the flywheel and engine backplate etc.

[Lord Sorbington]

Had this problem on my 2002 Passat from new, would judder the 1st couple of times on a cold damp morning.  VW renewed the clutch at 20000 miles but made no difference.

Have since found out that there is a known problem with a tiny oil leak onto the clutch plates on these cars, the 1st couple of times the clutch is used is enough to burn it off.....

[Greeks]

mine does the same ... and I just live with it. Incidentally after driving 1,000 miles i 3 days it completely went away - and then has slowly returned. That makes me think it's a slight oil leak.

So if it is an oil leak would replacement of the rear crankshaft seal theoretically solve it?

[Deleted User]

I'd agree with Greeks. It does sound like some friction plate contamination if it is clearing after a bit of clutch use. The fact that you said you can recreate it with some brake makes me wonder if it isn't being aggravated by some resistance on the gearbox side. Are you sure your brakes are properly sorted now?

If so I can only suggest that you'd need to remove the gearbox to take a good look.

[Doig]

No brakes still not working at the moment.

I have suspected that the gear box mounts might be suspect as the box now sits very close to the tunnel cover. I'll check the spacer tubes and washers and check if they are all present. And the condition of the gearbox mount (which was a real quality item, on recommendation of mechanic for overdrive boxs). Also problem does sometimes disapear after long trips sometimes however its still there  :-/

If this doesn't work do I have some comeback on the clutch job or do I have to pay to have it done again. It's winter here now and the prospect of the car being off the road and me being underneath it isn't particularly exciting.

Do pommy clutch plates still have asbestos in them (this could be an option)

[Doig]

Hmm.. had a bit if a fiddle around with this another of those issues which you think you've got sorted then it comes back.

I'm guessing the problem either lies in a contaminated plate. Or the large amount of free play in the drivers side rear wheel.

Either way I'm stocking up for my next clutch change (always prepared)

I've got a new old stock Clutch plate (its carcinogenic)
I've seen recomendations to use a sachs clutch cover form a saab 900, so I'll get one of these, also does anyone know what brand/type of throwout bearing should be used with this?
Oh and some of those bushes which hold the release mechanism bar thingy.

[Richard B]

If renewing the cross-shaft bushes, you might need a new taper pin. It goes through the shaft into the cross-shaft fork.  

How about the spigot bush (sits in the flywheel)?

[Doig]

Yeah I got a new taper pin put in last time the clutch was changed.

I've removed an old bodge where the slave cylinder was spaced with a few washers to give extra clearance. This was to rectify problems with the old clutch which suffered clutch spin. When the clutch was replaced I forgot to remove these. Long story short I feel it runs much better without these ( I hope I haven't done any serious damage to the pressure plate)

I suspect that one of the rear UJ's is knackered so I'll check that this weekend and replace if necessary and see if it helps.

Also I notice points of resistance in clutch pedal as though it is sticking, I'm not sure if this is related to the pedal box / master cylinder or the release mechanism....  Has anyone had any experience with similar symptoms?

I know its most likely a contaminated plate but I'd like to discount all possibilities before I decide to live with the problem. (which is now much better than it was before.)

[Greeks]

Take it for regular weekend 1,000km trips, preferably at average speeds in excess of what's sensible... that should keep the contamination at bay ;-D