SamWise Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'm gradually trying to fettle the Herald 1200 Convertible we bought to be a daily driver, but the electrics are giving me headaches, to say the least. The previous owner rewired most things to a row of the crappiest plastic rocker switches you've ever seen, theoretically attached the the dash, but actually hanging from their wires. These all packed up the other day, and I traced that problem to a crappily attached spade in the vast daisy chain of positive cables, all of which were coming from one cable on the positive terminal of the battery, with an inline 30 amp fuse on it, so there's plenty of fun to be had there. I'm going to replace them all with a row of toggles that I'll fab up a pretty wood panel for, and move them to where they're all switched by the ignition - no need to risk flattening the battery! Anyway, on to the starter. We've had the car about 8 weeks, and it's always taken a few tries to start, but the other day, my wife was starting it, it spun over the first twice, but then suddenly, nothing but the click of the solenoid. I was hoping it was the battery, though there was no logic in that, given that it had turned over lustily twice, and then nothing, but I charged it up - still nothing. Today, I tried to jump it - still nothing. The solenoid clicks over as loud as you like, but there's no movement. I can't seen anything wrong with the wiring to the starter motor, but I also can't think why it would pack up suddenly like that. Anyone got any thoughts? Starters are not too expensive, but I'm working 14 hour days, and want to make sure I'm doing the smart thing before I start putting several hours into something like that...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 There is a square end to the starter motor shaft, you can put a spanner on the end (7/16"?) and turn it a little, after which normal service should be resumed. It will probably happen again, so a replacement start won't be a bad idea.Previous owners' attempts to "improve" cars is the biggest cause of unreliability in our cars. The starter motor is simple wear and tear, but the wiring is DPO syndrome!Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamWise Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Thanks - at least I can get it running again for now. The wiring being as bad as it is just gives me motivation to sort it properly. So that's a good thing. Right? (I may be deceiving myself, but on the other hand, nobody buys a minter for £650) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamWise Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 And it's sorted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herald948 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I agree with Bill about turning the shaft on the starter either to expose a "non-dead spot" or, in some cases, to "unjam" the pinion from the flywheel ring gear. But the clicking you describe seems a classic case of dirty connections; they could be on the battery, on the other end of either batter cable, on the solenoid connections or on the starter itself.Given that you say "it's sorted" above, I'm guessing you may at least inadvertently have cleaned the offending connection. Yes, it certainly is possible to literally burn out a starter motor, but I've seen relatively few actually fail this way over the years. In my experience, it's been more likely the pinion gear breaks or wears out (or the spring[s] inside the gear. But even with an internal electrical failure, a starter should be almost as easy to rebuild as is a generator.On the other hand, these starters are so common it's seldom difficult to find a good used one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Also worth checking the earth strap to the engine, this was the problem on a friend's Stag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamWise Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 The earth strap looks ok, and a quick twist on the starter had everything working fine. If it was dirty cables, they'd surely have to be after the solenoid, which was clicking over with a vengeance. The fact that turning it a bit got things going suggests to me that it might be a dirty spot in there. I guess a rebuild or replacement is in order. Regardless, going over the electrics in detail is quite high on the priority list. Top, in fact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helicopterdcr Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I had starter problems on Mrs H's motor. It was the bendix, and I removed the starter twice to try and fix it before going out for an exchange motor. It cost me £18.82 plus VAT; I thought that was amazing. What a great car - free tax, latest insurance quote £99 for fully comprehensive insurance, easy maintenance (so far of course!) and to top it all a new starter motor for a bag of peanuts - when compared with a visit to Mr Toyota. The engine starts immediately every time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbodger Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 An easy test- get a set of jump leads, clip the black one as close to the starter as poss and connect direct to the battery earth post, and connect the red one direct to battery live post, and touch the other end of that one directly on the starter motor's terminal- if it spins over merrily you are looking at a connection problem, if it's still dead or sluggish then it's likely the starter motor is at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 SamWise wrote:If it was dirty cables, they'd surely have to be after the solenoid, which was clicking over with a vengeance. Not necessarily. A dirty connection will create a high resistance path, which will prevent adequate current flow to turn the starter. The circuit will carry sufficient current to operate the solenoid. A high resistance connection might be found anywhere in the supply or ground path for the starter, presume nothing,Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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