Rear Floor Wheel Arch Repair

[Spitfire2500]

A couple of quick questions for those who know about these things...

Earlparts list front floor repair sections, but I don't see anybody listing rear floor repair sections. If they're not available am I going to have to fabricate something to repair the rear floor to rear wheel arch in this area:

From the outside:



and from the inside:



Here's the repair I found to the N/S sill once I cut the outer off. I can only find one reference to the sill repairs in the receipts I have for the car (I have the lot!!) -- which would indicate this repair was made in 1983 when the car was only seven years old :B I was a bit skeptical that this repair could be that old but looking at the state of things either side of it it maybe is the 1983 repair.



Here's the sill nose piece -- you can see where the repair stops under the front of the door, there's nothing left to speak of the sill/sill extension forward of the repair (the front jacking point has completely disintegrated):



And from the inside:



Nothing terminal I believe -- but still rather daunting for a first timer  ??)

Slowly unpicking the N/S sill -- next thing to do will be to cut out the repair to see what it looks like behind and above it. Doing this very slowly cause I'm more or less figuring it out as I go along  :X  and doing it inbetween easy jobs  ;D

So far, I reckon it's going to need (both sides) inner sill and sill strengthener repaired, new outer sills, wheel arches repaired (front and back), new front and rear wings (both sides) and new boot floor. Otherwise OK and will polish up just fine  :X  ;D

At least I'm working on it again after doing nothing for the best part of a year :B

[Alex]

As your at this point, put a jack under the drag strut mounts and look at how much your door shut lines change......you will need to do this prior to welding to ensure a good level gap all the way down.
By that I mean jack it till it moves no more,then weld.When you release the jack the gap will open and give you better gaps......does that make sense?

RICHARD!!! he'll be here in a minute ;D

Alex

[Spitfire2500]

Alex wrote:

....does that make sense?

I'll give it go tomorrow. It's certainly not going to hurt to play about with at as much as I can at this stage  ;D

Door gaps are actually pretty tight to the sills at the moment (as they are in the pics in fact, the car is still on all four wheels - on ramps at the front, on the floor at the back) but the door opening/closing is just sublime  :)

Jacking it up through always ended up with either the front or rear doors jamming shut so the state of the sills etc wasn't that much of a surprise   :(

[Richard B]

Alex wrote:

RICHARD!!! he'll be here in a minute ;D

Alex

I'm here.

Just been looking a James 2.5 sill work.

Wot Alex sez is right, but don't over jack it and keep the doors on through most of the work/welding. You can keep checking the shuts as you go along. Also check the door hinge pins.

Yes the rear floor is a DIY jobbie. Bassically work form the middle of the car out;
Floors, outrigger(s), inner sills, jacking points, middle sill then outer sill.

The Earlpart full middle sills are quite good but they do not have the taper on the floor (gets narrower towards the rear).

See James Middle sill post.


ps there is also a reinforcement panel inside the middle sill at the front that welds to the inner sill, usually disintergrated....  :'(

[Spitfire2500]

Richard_B wrote:

Bassically work form the middle of the car out;
Floors, outrigger(s), inner sills, jacking points, middle sill then outer sill.

You make it sound so easy  :X  ;D

Quote:

The Earlpart full middle sills are quite good but they do not have the taper on the floor (gets narrower towards the rear).

See James Middle sill post.

Presumably the Earlpart middle sills can be "reworked" to fit the profile of the floor properly? Been reading James's thread since it started but will probably keep lurking in there for the time bearing in mind that I'm only just starting to figure out how to take these cars to bits never mind making my own (top notch) replacements sills... ;D

[Alex]

Bill have a look at the pictures of when I did mine (about august/september 09)....might help a bit?
I bought 2 earlpart middles cut offer them up,cut them down and welded them to the originals......Make sense?...I think the pictures will help,however earlparts dont have the holes in....

Alex

[Spitfire2500]

Alex wrote:

Bill have a look at the pictures of when I did mine (about august/september 09)....might help a bit?
I bought 2 earlpart middles cut offer them up,cut them down and welded them to the originals......Make sense?...I think the pictures will help,however earlparts dont have the holes in....

TBH can't remember the thread Alex but I'll do a bit of digging and have a look.

I'd sort of come to the conclusion that because a lot of inner and middle sill is actually perfectly OK the thing to do would be cut out the bad bits and replace with bits cut out of new replacements. On the basis that if for no other reason than that should leave plenty of fixed reference points in place which would hopefully mean I don't get it too badly wrong when it goes back together again -- but as always when I'm doing these things for the first time there's a lot of thinking goes on before anything actually happens  ;D

[Alex]

I used an inventive title....Mk1 sill replacement

[Spitfire2500]

Alex wrote:

Mk1 sill replacement

Got it thanks -- and I do remember it :)

Now added to my growing list of bookmarked useful CT and Register forum posts... ;D

[Richard B]

You will be better off changing the base of the sill in one.

Do the floor first and then the inner sill and jacking points. This gives you the reference for the height of the middle sill,

I've found it's much better with the re-inforcement holes punched in the panel as the middle sill does not become so flexible when you trim it to fit. You only have to change about the bottom 1" in the middle the ends of the middle sill are the parts that rot.

Either buy the full Earlpar middle sill and re-jig the taper. (If you have access to the tools punch the holes)
Perusade James to make you a pair  :-/
Buy OE (Repressed) middle sills

[Spitfire2500]

Richard_B wrote:

You will be better off changing the base of the sill in one.

Do the floor first and then the inner sill and jacking points. This gives you the reference for the height of the middle sill,

I've found it's much better with the re-inforcement holes punched in the panel as the middle sill does not become so flexible when you trim it to fit. You only have to change about the bottom 1" in the middle the ends of the middle sill are the parts that rot.]

OK, will do. Certainly agree re the bottom 1". In spite of the mess at each end of the sill it's not at all bad in the centre.

Quote:

Buy OE (Repressed) middle sills

Ah -- hence, I presume, CW stating his strengtheners (middle sills) are "...repressed like original".

If that's the case I'll go for those and his outers (as it looks like I'll be getting rear wings and boot floor from Chris anyway). Time to phone Chris for a chat methinks.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

[Richard B]

The OE ones are best, they have the drain holes, the location holes for the jacking points and the various steps & flanges.

Butt weld or go for a 1/4" overlap. with the old middle sill.

Please post photos as it progresses....

[Spitfire2500]

Richard_B wrote:

Please post photos as it progresses....

Will do. I got a blog in the offing too, which might help spur me along to get things done on a regular basis.

Chris's repressed OE middle and outer sills are on a 12 week lead time, which really isn't a problem as there's loads of other things to do while I'm waiting -- and hopefully I can get the inner sills and front floors from Earlparts a bit quicker in any case.

Spoke to Chris this afternoon -- will be talking to Earlparts tomorrow.

[Alex]

Are you not able to make good your inners?
On my car the inners where only missing the bottom 1/4 inch in places so I could just repair rather than replace completely.

Expect it to be a long job doing the sills and you'll not be upset when it is ;D

Good luck,
Alex

[Spitfire2500]

Alex wrote:

Are you not able to make good your inners?
On my car the inners where only missing the bottom 1/4 inch in places so I could just repair rather than replace completely.

TBH dunno at the moment. I need to get that repair off to see what the inner looks like from the outside. Top of inner inside the car is certainly not too bad at all (except at the very front and back).

Oh it's going to be a long job all right -- don't expect MikeW-like progress on this one  :B ;D

[Richard B]

I've never needed to change the inner, just repair from the floor down.

....and as Alex says a bit above the floor at the front.

[Alex]

Where did I say that Richard? ;D
I said only the very bottom in places......although from memory the worse part was actually the drivers side front footwell/innersill edge, otherwise everything was underneath.

[Richard B]

Alex wrote:

Where did I say that Richard? ;D

You must have thought it  8)

[Alex]

Richard_B wrote:

You must have thought it  8)

Now that makes more sense ;)

[Spitfire2500]

Got my Register Service notes this morning -- which I have to say has some superb articles by CW on body repair. Superb article from Dec 87 on sill repairs which has also shed light on what's going on with my car. Chris lists the three options and associated costs at that time for sill repairs: Full cut out and replacement (£300); Proper repair of existing sills (£130) and MOT Patch Up (£50).

The receipt I have for the 1983 N/S sill repair was, wait for it, £46  ::) and the repair was done exactly in the manner illustrated in the article (oversill with extension) and the end result exactly is exactly as described, "MOT Patch Up, weak, full of rust traps, poor rigidity"  ;D  ;D

Also another great article from CW about rear inner wheel arch repairs which deals with exactly the rot pattern in the arch and rear floor pictured above in my car.

It all helps...  :)

[Spitfire2500]

Still only managing to work on the 2000 sporadically. At least I reckon I now understand the full horrors of the N/S sills :'( I cut out the old repairs to the middle sill this afternoon and this is what I found - inner sill completely gone under the double-skinned part of the floor (where the seats mount). Looking on the bright side, at least the floor behind the big hole is in good nick :X



I also cut out the old repairs from the area around the front of the sill/wheelarch. There is absolutely nothing of the original middle sill left here (to the left of the remains of the front jacking point). The inner sill is very, very thin here and I think the whole of this area need new metal.



I also cut a section out of the front floor pan to check on its condition. Other than where it joins the inner sill at the front it's mostly OK. I couldn't believe what I found when I cut the crossmember off though -- it was full of rust. This is what was in there  ??)



Trying to be positive again, the rest of the middle sill and the inner sill to the rear of the big hole aren't too bad at all (barring right the rear, see earlier pics).

[Richard B]

Bill,

Don't cut too much out at one go, get the front outrigger, front floor and inner sill repaired/fitted  first.

Leave the doors on and keep checking the fit (check for broken door hinge pins  :-/ ). You should be able to get a nice door close as the outer sill goes on.

[Spitfire2500]

Richard_B wrote:

Don't cut too much out at one go, get the front outrigger, front floor and inner sill repaired/fitted  first.

That's as far as I was planning to go in any case before starting the remedial work. For me, it's been a learning process as much as anything else -- peeling apart the sills in that fashion has let me figure out how it goes together at the same time as figuring out what needs to be done  :)

Next two or three weekends will be spent stripping the front lamp panel back to bare metal and priming etc while I collect the bits I need to fix the N/S sills and floor. The front lamp panel looked quite bad actually, lots of surface rust coming through the paint but I've got most of the easy bits stripped back to bare metal already and the metal's good. Cheered me up a bit :)

[mikew]

Glad to see you have started this Bill, good luck with it.

I have been a little busy with work recently to contribute to the forum, but it will be good to see another 2000 back on the road.

mike

[Spitfire2500]

Thanks Mike.

It'll be slow going but I'll get there in the end  :)