Chris_68 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 HiI got such an excellent help from this forum in the past so I hope for good advice this time as well.It seems I have a faulty/intermittent oil pump.I poured some oil cleaner (similar to Wynns) and run the engine for another 10 minutes, emptied the oil, replaced filter and some new oil. I wanted to clean everything one more time so I used cheap 10/30 oil and let it run on idle. I removed the oil filler cap and it seems there is no oil from the pump. I checked the lamp and pressure switch and ‘dmn’ the lamp stopped working…I am eager to get it for a spin this summer and I need advice which way to go, my options areReplace oil with thicker one, perhaps it is too thin to let the pump start working.Empty oil and fill up the sump with diesel and see if the sludge dissolves from pump and the filter.Remove dizzy and spin CCW to see if I get oil to rocker cover.Off course I can remove sump and pump, I guess it will take some time but since my plan is to strip the engine this winter I hoped I could avoid to do this now. Or perhaps it is not as cumbersome as it seems?I am not sure the oil pressure switch is actually working but regardless of this there should be some oil pumping around in rocker cover. Thank you for any input and sorry for my question, I just do not want to spend time and money on the wrong horse.The car is a MKIV -72CheersChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hello Chris, drain and refill wih 20\50 multigrade. I don't understand what you mean about the lamp stopped working? The oil pressure lght should go out when you have oil pressure. If the light is on when the ignition is first switched on then goes out when the engine starts that is normal. If there is no light when you first switch on, sort that out first so you have some check on oil pressureAt idle you are unlikely to see oil in the rocker cover but you should see some weeping around the rockers where they pivot on the rocker shaft. If you don't it doesn't necessarily mean an oil pump fault, you could;d have a blocked oil gallery to the rockers or the rocker pedestal drilling is blocked.Don't put diesel in the sump by the way.Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_68 Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hi Alec,Thank you for your help.Sorry for my explanation, I had bad connection to the lamp so it was never on, when I fixed the ground it was on all the time :( so now I do not know if I had bad pressure before I changed the oil.I will replace the oil with Castrol 20\50 tonight and see if it helps; it is not a fortune if I need to replace it anyway.If the oil gallery is blocked, can I clean this without dismantling the engine? I had hope that the oil cleaner would have done this but it seems that this is not the case, perhaps worth to give it another try.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodders1 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hi ChrisIf you have any doubts about the oil circulation, do not fire the engine up at all!First check the oil pump is funcitoning:remove the oil filter, then remove the dizzy and turn the oil pump drive anticlockwise (I have used a long screwdriver bit mounted in a cordless drill to do this in the past - just remember to set the drill on reverse and go slowly). You should see oil coming out of the filter mounting.If this works, we can assume that the pump is basically working - although it may be working at reduced pressure due to internal scoring.Next, check the oil gallery:replace the filter, and then remove 7/16 bolt-head with a copper washer under it on the rear left-hand corner of the cylinder head. Again, spin the oil pump and see if oil emerges here - if it does, the main oil gallery is not blocked.If you are getting oil at the back of the cylinder head, then the oil gallery is not blocked.It is reasonable to fire the engine up now.It is not unknown for the oil pressure sender to fail altogether. This is easily and cheaply replaced. I had this sender fail on my first Spitfire with the result that the oil light stayed on even when an oil pressure gauge showed 50 PSI. The oil pressure sender should switch off when the oil pressure goes above around 5 PSI. If replacing the sender does not solve the problem, then the oil pump is sh@gged.I hope this helps solve your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hello Chris, oil cleaner is unlikely to clear a blocked oilway. If the rocker gear is dry, and you have oil pressure (i.e. if your repaired oil light now works?). Take the rocker assembly off, remove the pushrods then crank over the engine and see if oil appears in the oil feed. If not then it will take a bit of thin steel rod to poke down the hole to clear it. The chances are that the blockage will be in the rocker pedestal though. Again manual cleaning is the way.Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_68 Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Hi,Thank you all for your kind help, it seems it was not as bad as I first expected. I post an update so others know what was wrong.By spinning pump with a drill I could verify oil pumping to filter and also to the plug at the rear of the cylinder head. It is not much oil that comes out from the plug, but I can feel it getting pressurized when I block the hole with my finger.I removed the rocker pedestal, cleaned it and finally used a syringe to pump oil through it, I assembled it all together and tested. With the thin 10/30 oil the pump is not able to pump the oil through the tiny holes in the crankpins. Instead I poured some 20/50 directly in the pump and that did the trick, so now I will replace all the oil and keep my fingers crossed it will be enough. Since I had the rocker removed I have to adjust valves before I start it, and borrow a torque wrench.I will remove the oil pressure switch and see if it is malfunctioning, or perhaps the pressure is not enough after all.What about the pressure relief valve, I guess it is the opposite behaviour if it is not working correctly, or?I read both good and bad things about rocker oil feeder, at least it would increase the pressure to rockers, it is not so expencive so perhaps worth giving it a try.Oil pressure gauge seems like a nice thing to have, any advantage with one or the other regarding electrical or mechanical? I will try to find a used one that is cheaper.CheersChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I would get a mechanical gauge, very reliable usually. And try another pressure switch.Worth taking the relief valve out and having a look, it is easy and quick to do, it may be a broken spring, some dirt whatever stopping it sealing.Avoid the rocker oil feed kits, they send far too much oil to the rockers, and could starve the crank bearings of oil. They can be made to work, but need reducing and also the oil feed in the head blanking off. All for little advantage, if any.Let us know how it goes!Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonB67 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 My oil light came on on the run home from le mans.My plan of action is:1) Beer2) Refit the oil pressure guage. If i have oil pressure, I can discount the pump and pressure relief spring and it's probably the pressure switch. If not, then start with the spring and clear oilways, and then move to the pump.3) more beerNot sure if that helps any, but pretty much any time the oil pressure light comes on the best practice is to put a guage on an find out whats happening, rather than guessing or changing bits in the hope it puts the light out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Hello Chris, a little point, an extra rocker oil feed will not increase pressure ther but increase flow. Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 JonB67 wrote:My oil light came on on the run home from le mans.My plan of action is:1) Beer2) Refit the oil pressure guage. If i have oil pressure, I can discount the pump and pressure relief spring and it's probably the pressure switch. If not, then start with the spring and clear oilways, and then move to the pump.3) more beerYou have missed out 1a, 1b, 1c AND 1d. All these are beer. Then no more worries.And has that brother of yours got the Triumph bug yet?Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_68 Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Hi all,Thank you for all advice and help.I simply followed advice 1a-1d and now I have a working oil pressure, or perhaps it can be the pressure switch :). During this work I had to clean the rocker arm and solder in the starter so some more things to exclude from "future faults" list.I do not know what pressure I got, the lamp are iluminated for a few seconds after start and I see some oil at the rocker so I hope it is enough.I will try to find a pressure gauge at eBay. A pressure gauge is not fitted as original at a MKIV but which one was fitted as extra, can anyone help me with a photo or type?CheersChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Chris_68 wrote:I will try to find a pressure gauge at eBay. A pressure gauge is not fitted as original at a MKIV but which one was fitted as extra, can anyone help me with a photo or type?A pressure gauge was never fitted even as an extra. I would replace your temperature gauge with one of these dual gauges (the centigrade version). Gives you a better mechanical temperature gauge & oil pressure without having to cut any extra holes & it matches your Smiths fuel gauge:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dual-Oil-and-Water-Gauge_W0QQitemZ160233654377QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160233654377Here's a better picture:http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct.asp?sg=&pgCode=070&sgName=Hardware&pgName=Gauges&agCode=0607&agName=Smiths+Classic+52mm+Full+Scale&pCode=070.018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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