Early seat belts

[efp]

In my sad obsession with originality, I’m now at the point of looking at seatbelts on my mk2 spit.
I know, anyone sensible would be looking at aftermarket inertia Securons etc. but I’m not sensible.
Pictured is what came off the car, in a sad and very unsafe state, Kangol branded 3 point static with a J type clasp.  But I only have one set. L
Before I go down the path of finding a matching one and getting them restored (Quickfit has been suggested),  can someone confirm this is the original type to the car?

[nang]

Yes,
I had them on my Mk4.
Tony.

[PeteStupps]

I've not seen these type but seatbelts would have been an option on the mk2 wouldn't they? Possibly fitted by a dealer rather than the factory.

My mk3 and 1300FWD both have the triumph-branded Britax belts. I had new webbing and inertia reels fitted on the FWD by Quickfit. Good job but pricey. On the spit I fitted inertia reels myself. I think you're right to avoid the modern Securon ones if you can do so safely, they don't look right to me on a 60's car.

[efp]

Interesting Pete, cheers.
You could be right on dealer fitting. Not sure, but I have an idea belts became mandatory in 67 and while my car was registered Jan 1 1967, obviously she was built in 66.
Believe the mot rules dictate that if belts were fitted they have to stay fitted, but such has been the extent of my restoration, right now there’s no holes or bracketry to show she ever was so fitted..(held off till I decided which type to install) so  wondering if I could get away without them for her final MOT?
Obviously not sensible to drive much without belts at all, but want to get her motted soon, finding and restoring period belts will take time and money I don’t have, and like you, I’m not at all keen on the look of the Securon types.

[efp]

Another pic. If anyone has a single one of these lying around unwanted, in any condition, I’d be glad to hear from you.
Thanks
John

[efp]

Think I’ve found the answer to my own question: cars produced since 65 had to have belt mount points if not belts, which were required from 67, but then later all post 65 cars were retrospectively required to have belts fitted  ☹️
This seems to be the consensus anyway, though some sources differ, I can’t find the actual legislative act, and even Wikipedia says citation needed.
Looking like I’ll have to go down the securon type route as this style of Kangol seems to be like rocking horse poo.

☹️ again.

[JohnD]

efp,
your admitted obsession with originality doesn't do you any credit.   Would you carry it to the point of using original flexible brake lines?   Or tyres?   If you could get either?

I'm sure that you maintain your car to keep it fit for use, and replace worn our parts.     Well, those seat belts are worn out, and should be replaced, for your safety, that of your pasengers and other road users.

Aviation is the best source of information about seat belts.
This study recomended that seat belts should be replaced after ten years, surely a reasonable life for a safety-critical item?    This wasn't just opinion but based on detailed laboratory assessment of belts, in use and kept in store.      
Quote,
"It would be prudent to adopt a maximum lifespan for belts in service of 10 years from
the date of manufacture (this would include both time in storage and service life) until
further information can be gained about long-term performance. This lifetime is based
on the natural deterioration of polymer fibres that occurs even when they are in storage
in ideal conditions. "
https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/SEBED%20Report_Final_5-2010.pdf

So, please, control your obsession and get some new seat belts!
John

[DanM]

Originally they would have had Britax Excelsior if fitted at the dealers but mk2 would have only had the floor points from the factory. Qwikfit sbs do some period ones like the ones you have, which are aftermarket items anyway so I would get new.

[efp]

Hi John

A little harsh toned?

Thanks for your concern, but I always fully intended to get the belts professionally re-webbed and checked over.  

I make no apologies for my obsession, I see nothing wrong and take pride in getting and keeping my cars as period correct as possible, within reason, and drive them mindful of their limitations. Obviously certain parts have a finite life, but to use your own analogy, I wouldn’t throw a wheel away just because the tyre is worn (though I’m not obsessed enough to fit crossplys..).
See no reason why the belts can’t be made safe again, and I like the look.

Best
John

[DanM]

see here

https://www.quickfitsbs.com/static_lap_diagonals_classic.php

[efp]

Thanks Dan. The Kangol magnetics seem to be period correct but as I now understand it dealers often fitted what they had to hand either at the point of sale or later. So strictly there may not be a “correct” type?
So I can junk my “obsession” with the Kangols, much as I like them, which was my original question. Which is probably just as well as they seem to be thin on the ground.

Didn’t know mk2s only came with two floor points, but there seems to be a morass of conflicting misinformation out there on t’interweb regarding belts on classics, so am a bit confused. My wheelarch top mounting plates looked original but hard to tell after 50 years. I’ll certainly stick with 3 pointers of some kind.

Cheers

[PeteStupps]

Quoted from efp

...
So I can junk my “obsession” with the Kangols, much as I like them, which was my original question. Which is probably just as well as they seem to be thin on the ground.

Didn’t know mk2s only came with two floor points, but there seems to be a morass of conflicting misinformation out there on t’interweb regarding belts on classics, so am a bit confused. My wheelarch top mounting plates looked original but hard to tell after 50 years. I’ll certainly stick with 3 pointers of some kind.

Have you tried saving a search on Ebay for them? I've gradually amassed various bits of Britax buckles that way, in order to make some serviceable sets.
Alternatively, if you like the look of the 'vintage' Quickfit buckles then that's easy.

Personally I'd recommend inertia reels rather than statics. Then you don't have to adjust it if you happen to be wearing a thicker jumper than last time! Plus they must serve you better in a crash. Note that these need an additional anchor point for the reel, usually on the flat face of the wheel-arch. The reels that Quickfit put on my FWD are more compact and look better than the Securon ones.

On JohnD's point, obviously I'm not advocating the use of old webbing or knackered hardware. The average Spitfire doesn't have many other safety features to fall back on...

[efp]

Only just started looking Pete, will keep an eye on eBay but think I’ll end up getting the Quickfit ones for now, and keep an eye out for a matching Kangol with a view to a long term refurbishment.

Incidentally, if anyone else is interested, I found these NOS  on a Japanese site. But at around £330 plus tax and shipping, a bit much for me, and suspect they’d suit a later model better

Cheers

[DanM]

those are the ones that would have been fitted by the dealer if the original purchaser paid for them. They were not a standard fitment until 1967. Most of our cars would have had them fitted when it became compulsory for all post 1965 cars (in 69 I think) so people would have used whatever they could. Mine has the same as those but with Britax badges not Stanpart. so clearly fitted later. I am going to replace with the quickfit ones as well as they are 50 years old. The old stock ones are very old as well so the webbing may well be degraded.

There is no correct belt for a mk2

[efp]

Thanks again Dan.
J

[JohnD]

Quoted from efp

Hi John

A little harsh toned?

Thanks for your concern, but I always fully intended to get the belts professionally re-webbed and checked over.  

Best
John

John,
Phew!    Glad to hear it!   The world needs Triumpheroes, not heroes!

John

[JohnD]

Quoted from efp

Hi John

A little harsh toned?

Thanks for your concern, but I always fully intended to get the belts professionally re-webbed and checked over.  

Best
John

John,
Phew!    Glad to hear it!   The world needs Triumpheroes, not heroes!

John

[efp]

[JohnD]

You will have noted that the recommendation of the aviation study was that, as well as belts in use,  belts kept in store for more than ten years were not fit for use.
Those NOS belts from Jaopan have to be forty years old.

But if you wnat the logo on the buckle, and are willing to spend £300+, you can afford to have new belts fitted to them!  Please!

John

[Adrian Cooper]

I can confirm DanM's information about the Mk2 only having floor mounting points for the seat belts. When I bought my Mk2 in 1985 it did have 3 point belts but the 'over the shoulder' strap mounted to the same floor point as the lap belt.
I'm afraid that I can't be any further help on originality as, 32 years later, only the chassis, engine, seat frames and steering column are unchanged from the car I bought.

Adrian

[poppyman]

Just be carefull you dont end up like this poor chap

[efp]