Clutch Replacement

[shadowbane]

So having done most things to the car from stripping it down to engine out to repainting.....How hard a job is a clutch replacement on a 74 MkIV? Do it myself or let a garage take the hastle?

[Fizzy]

ive done mine at least 5 times in the last 3 years, its definitely a job you can do yourself. i say yourself, a spare hands of hands is very useful when pulling the gearbox out, though apparently it is possible on your own. the only special tool i can think you might need is a clutch alignment tool. other than that its just a case of stripping bits back until you get to the gearbox, which comes out from inside the car.

interior wise, i remove the passenger side glovebox, tunnel carpet, tunnel cover, H frame. you can also remove the seat to make it a bit easier, and to avoid any possible damage, though i dont bother. for the sake of 4 bolts its not much hassle though. from inside you can undo the 4 prop bolts at the 'box end, then do the other 4 from under the car, and remove it. you may or may not need to drop the exhaust from its rear mount, depends on your exhaust. also from inside undo the speedo cable, and remove the wires from the reverse light switch and OD if you have one. also remove the nuts from the gearbox mounts. also from inside, undo the bolt that holds the slave cylinder in place, and pull the slave out of the housing.

with the car up on stands/ramp remove the starter motor, dont let it hang off the bottom bolt, i always remove the bottom one first. then i jack the engine up a little bit, makes it easier to get the gearbox out. them its just a case of undoing all the bellhousing bolts, and pulling the gearbox out of the car. the clutch is simple enough to remove and replace, just need the alignment tool, or i use a spare mainshaft to line it up. reverse the procedure to put it all back together.

ive had much practice due to a dodgy engine plate mangling my clutches, i can get this done in half a day on my own, though i get another pair of hands to pull the box out. easily done in a day. nothing too complicated, just lots of things to undo and then do back up. be methodical, dont lose track of which bolts go where, and you cant really go wrong.

sometimes getting the box out and putting it back on the engine can take a bit of jiggling and wiggling, this is where another pair of hands is handy.

[shadowbane]

wow thanks for that :) gave me a bit of confidence to go at it myself. I think a new clutch is like £60 so may just get an alignment tool while i'm at it (i think around £15 universal)....Can i do it following the Haynes manual?...otherwise i'll be nagging you :)

[Fizzy]

first time i done it i used the workshop manual. everything is relatively easy to get to and obvious. once youve taken it apart, you'll know how to put it back together. keeping the various nuts and bolts sorted out is essential though, theres lots of different sizes, and theres 3 studs in the engine at the top of the bellhousing which just have nuts on them, theres usually an earthing strap on one of them. i try and keep these in order so the same nut goes on the same stud, as over the years i seem to have accumulated 3 nuts that only fit on their chosen studs :-/ pretty sure ive not forgotten anything.

while you have the tunnel carpet out, you can think about cutting a hole in the tunnel cover (not the carpet ??)) above the fill plug for the gearbox oil. this makes it very easy to top up your gearbox oil from inside the car, just peel the carpet up, undo the bung and put the oil in. use something to cover the hole in the tunnel, like a bit of card or metal, taped or self tap screwed on. i left one side attatched so the hole is actually more of a flap that hinges at one side, and i tape the other side down.

[shadowbane]

Thanks for the help mate, i'll give it a go :)

[shadowbane]

wait! before i forget lol

In the haynes it says to drive the car (off the floor) until you can engage the overdrive then dissengage with cutch down....does this matter for just replacing the clutch? or is that just for overdrive removal completely?

[Fizzy]

hmmm. my car doesnt have overdrive yet, so i cant be too sure. probably worth waiting until somebody else can clear it up for definite.

[Rich_s]

I have overdrive on my 1500 and did not do anything special when we did the clutch, think that was only if we intended to take the overdrive unit off the gearbox, all i was doing was fitting a new clutch, and as per fizzy's in depth description, it really is that easy. I think the hardest part of the whole lot was getting the H panel back in afterwards.

If you have an overdrive unit as well, the whole lot is a bit weighty! possible with one person but i like an easy life so had someone under the car supporting the weight and i lifted it out, just didnt fancy dropping the whole lot on the floor :).

rich

[shadowbane]

Thanks Rich.....I'll try hunt down a Mkiv clutch now and get on it :)

[firebobby]

If you have a trolley jack, you can slip this under the box and wiggle the box back away from the engine, as long as your careful, all the weight will be on the jack and you can slide the box out on this.
I have done this in the past :)

[shadowbane]

i do yeah good plan. Although now i need to find a fixed jack to up the engine a little :D

[uksnatcher]

shadowbane wrote:

In the haynes it says to drive the car (off the floor) until you can engage the overdrive then dissengage with cutch down....does this matter for just replacing the clutch? or is that just for overdrive removal completely?

Dont worry about doing the above, like you say its if you are striping the overdrive, you can take the overdrive off the gearbox without doing the above if you have to recon the gearbox too.

Gearbox removal is a fairly big job but you will manage it.....its a big bag of nuts and bolts at the end of the day, prepare for a day of work (if you are doing it in one go) and have the parts you need ordered and to hand before you start.

My experience on the 1500 with O/D. is i would drop the exhaust at the manifold as i cracked the downpipe jacking the engine (block of wood on the sump when jacking) a gasket is alot cheaper than an exhaust + the gasket.

Also, to save a job down the line,  get the uprated clutch arm pivot fork pin/bushes/tolerance ring, and a new slave cylinder push rod + pin, and a new release bearing fitted while the gearbox is out, you will need a vice idealy to replace the old bearing, if you are really going the whole hog, replace the crankshaft spigot bush too but that involves removing the flywheel, if not give it a good lube with a dollop of grease before refitting the gearbox and deffo use a clutch alignment tool, i got the lot from Paddocks:
http://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/Stock.aspx?SubCategoryID=3&VehicleID=2&category=2

I have also heard the Quinton Hazel clutch kits inc a release bearing thats slightly too short causing low bite on the pedal after fitting, a modification to the push rod is needed, can anyone confirm this?

I used a LUX clutch kit with no probs, the ones supplied by Paddocks are Borg&Beck i belive.

The clutch assem is secured to the flywheel with locating dowels and allen bolts (sorry the size of allen key/socket escapes me) and can be tricky to prise off once all bolts are removed, same again on fitment, the dowels are a tight fit so opposite bolt tightening sequence helps (like tightening a cylinder head down) then make sure the clutch alignment tool slips fully in and out freely (ooohhh eerrr) and the gearbox will fall in. And also make sure the clutch friction plate is the right way round between the flywheel and the clutch cover otherwise it will simply lock the clutch assem up and the gearbox wont seat fully home against the engine.  

As for lubing the splines on the g/box input shaft with copper grease ....i would personally but some swear on none at all, light oil or normal grease.

Take care with not bending the engine back plate, top bell housing bolts last ones to undo and the first ones to tighten.

Ohh and do the job with the roof dropped, alot more leverage with you stood up in the car :)

G,luck..., hope its helped out a little.

Gaz

[Doug Paterson]

yamaha_fizzy wrote:

ive done mine at least 5 times in the last 3 years, its definitely a job you can do yourself

not sure 5 times in 3 years is a great advert for the job you've done ......  :P

joking mate  ;)

[Doug Paterson]

One important point I've not seen mentioned above (I may have missed it) that can have a very similar effect to a bent back plate......

When re-assembling the bell housing to the backplate it is critically important that first bolt to be nipped up is the dowel bolt at bottom drivers side.  You can see this bolt on the bellhousing picture on the Rimmers website.  

It's not a regular bolt and is designed such that the dowel part pushes through the backplate hole into the bellhousing hole.

If you leave this bolt to last, chances are you won't be able to fit it in and in turn the bellhousing will be slightly out of alignment.

This can lead to the centre of the clutch driven plate ripping out in a few thousand miles or less.

I remember walking into Chic Doig's with a mate and his ruined clutch plate..... "Ah ..... someone has forgotten the dowel bolt" was his instant comment  :)  He was wrong in that instance as like Fizzy, Dave's car had a bent backplate.

[shadowbane]

So what exactly am i needing to replace the clutch. I was just looking at the the "Complete Clutch" on Canleys

http://www.canleyclassics.com/searchforapart/?desc=COMPLETE%20CLUTCH%20-%20SPIT/HER%206%201/2%22%20DIAPHRAM


http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/herald1360clutch.html&xsl=diagram.xsl&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/herald1360.html


This was the one they suggested

[Nick Moore]

If you can find an alloy bell housing, it will make the box a fair bit lighter and easier to manoeuvre back into place.

One bit of advice, when you're pulling the box back from the engine prior to lifting it out, don't let it drop an squash your fingers against the chassis rail. And it hurts even more when you do it again a minute later  ??)

[Doug Paterson]

Nick_Moore wrote:

If you can find an alloy bell housing, it will make the box a fair bit lighter and easier to manoeuvre back into place.

One bit of advice, when you're pulling the box back from the engine prior to lifting it out, don't let it drop an squash your fingers against the chassis rail. And it hurts even more when you do it again a minute later  ??)

And a tip to remember if swapping the Bell Housing ..... 4 out of the 5 bolts attaching the housing to the gearbox should have spring washers.  The 5th (lowest) bolt needs a copper washer - as that bolt is below the gearbox oil level and hence the copper washer ensures a decent oiltight seal.

[junkuser]

Shadowbane. Many of the "universal clutch alignment tools" on the market are pretty hopeless so advice from members on which are satisfactory would be helpful.
If you can borrow an input shaft to align the plate with it is much easier.
Put the driven plate in position with the shaft and lightly nip the pressure plate into position.
Rotate the engine and see if there is any wobble in the shaft and adjust if necessary.  
When OK continue to tighten the pressure plate down evenly and check that the shaft still rotates in centre.
Getting this step correct saves problems later when offering up the gearbox.

[shadowbane]

junkuser wrote:

Shadowbane. Many of the "universal clutch alignment tools" on the market are pretty hopeless so advice from members on which are satisfactory would be helpful.
If you can borrow an input shaft to align the plate with it is much easier.
.

Ah, probably won't be able to :/ ...Can anyone tell me if the Canley link on the previous page is what i am after?

[uksnatcher]

The link you posted is GCK272 and is listed for MK2 & MK3 spitfires.

If your car is MK4 1300 10 spline, 6.5 inch diameter GCK273 but Canleys are showing no longer available and use GCK272 so assume thats correct.

If its MK4 1500 you want 20 spline 7.25 inch diameter GCK160
http://www.canleyclassics.com/searchforapart/?desc=&ptno=GCK160

Heres Rimmers for reference
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID005553

Heres the essential clutch alignment tool from Canleys
1300 Part Number : GAC5053A
http://www.canleyclassics.com/searchforapart/?desc=CLUTCH+ALIGNMENT+TOOL+-+HER%2FSPIT+1200%2F1300&ptno=GAC5053A

1500 Part Number : GAC5053B
http://www.canleyclassics.com/searchforapart/?desc=CLUTCH+ALIGNMENT+TOOL+-+SPIT%2FDOL%2FMIDGET+1500&ptno=GAC5053B

[shadowbane]

yeah Mk4 1300 ...i wonder why they sent me that link then :/

Don't really want to get from Rimmers :( £40 more.....never used anywhere else really.....anyone know anywhere?

thanks for the info uksnatcher

[uksnatcher]

Canleys have supplied loads of these clutches so i dont understand either, try another call before you buy to confirm the fittment

I can highly recommend James Paddock
http://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/Stock.aspx?SubCategoryID=3&VehicleID=2&category=2

Give em a call 01244 399899 and if you order online afterwards you get 5% discount

Anybody on this forum will agree they are top blokes and will help you all the way, dont forget the alignment tool and the clutch fork push rod/pin, pivot pin/bushes and tollerance ring.

If a jobs worth doing...and all that  ;)

[shadowbane]

Thanks for the help i'll give them a ring :) i have another thread about the slave cylinder so gonna check all return springs etc before i jump into the clutch

[uksnatcher]

If the clutch isnt slipping and the bite is low sounds very like a hydraulic problem, or a clutch fork pivot pin fell out and if the release bearing is noisy its a box out job. Also the pedal arm itself could be worn where it pushes the master cylinder or the middle of the pedal pivot bush. A pedal return spring is essencial too. Any leaky cylinders wont help either, air bubbles compress, its a pain to bleed the spit, you will have to have tunnel out.

Fingers x'ed mate...!

[Fizzy]

i currently have one of thse ones in my car i think http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIUMPH-HERALD-SPITFIRE-MK-2-3-4-CLUTCH-KIT-/360296703863?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item53e35b6777

certainly at least one of the clutches i mangled was one of these. i also had a QH one, which you can get from motorfacts. cant comment on the quality because obviously my back plate decided it wanted to ruin it after 2 months.