TimEllis Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Hello, I am new to the world of Triumph electrics and I have been really struggling with my Triumph Vitesse MK 1. I have used it for a few weeks and then everything started to go wrong. There was a lot of noise from the Dynamo so I decided to change it. I put a new one on and made sure it was negative earth and fitted it. I started the car and bang the pulley blew up and the dynamo wouldn't stop until i disconnected the battery. I now have no pulley but I can't get the dynamo to stop running. I have had a look at the regulator box which is all clean and fine and I have checked all connections etc. I made sure I put everything back in the same order and photographed everything as I went along. I am no expert and really just thought this would be a simple job but I am really at a loss on what to do. I have read through my manuals but I still can't see where to start and what to do first. I've just joined club Triumph so I hope to be able to use the car in a London based group or near by. Any help would be really much appreciated. Many thanks, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Hi, it sounds like theres a problem with the regulator even though youve looked at it as there are contacts which should open and disconnect the dynamo if its output is too low (eg when stationary). At rest two contacts will be closed and this cut out contact open, is that the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimEllis Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 Many thanks for the reply, I've just got some photographs of the regulator box but i can't upload them. Perhaps if I describe it. There is no rust, the metal tabs on the top move and they are in contact with the metal circular sections. Has it had it? would I be best to buy a new one? Very best, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Also, are you absolutely sure that what you took off was a dynamo? There are people who sell "dynamators" - alternators built in a dynamo-look-alike body. If your car has been converted for one of those and you fit a real dynamo to the alternator wiring, then it will act as a motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimEllis Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 Hi Rob, Yes I am absolutely sure, it was new old stock and came with all the part numbers etc. I put the old dynamo back on the car to double check I wasn't loosing my mind and it also started running continuously, annoyingly with no sound so I now have a car with other strange noises from somewhere. I have cleaned the contacts in the regulator box and made sure they move up and down. Should they be always in contact with the metal or a space between. I'll have a tea and see what happens next, I have got to that stage where I'll either cry or throw something at it. I should add I've owned the car for 20 years and it has laid up for 5 years through my own health problems. The garage was dry but a few things have started to fail so I guess I should really have kept it moving and tried to have used it. Thanks again. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 OK, that does sound like it's probably the regulator box that's faulty. I've not played with them for a long time (and not much even then) as all my current fleet have alternators (one from the factory, the others converted). I would think the contacts ought to be open when everything is off, although perhaps its only two of the three open. Have a Google - there's quite a few good resources out there for checking and setting Lucas regulators. You're absolutely right that it's probably the lay-up that's led to all your problems. They really do prefer to be used. My Vitesse is just getting back to reliability now that I've been driving it frequently, and that was only a two year lay-up (engine problems just before moving house and being temporarily without a workshop). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Hutchings Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Hi Tim, welcome to the Club! I don't have any direct answers or advice for you having converted to Alternator a long time ago, but can recommend the Lucas Fault Diagnosis Service Manual which is available all over the place as a scanned PDF file: http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/lucas-faults.pdf (or printed it seems: https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/lucas-fault-diagnosis-manual-gac1029x.html) As to why it wasn't working originally, I wonder if the dynamo needed 'flashing' (Repolarising) after begin laid-up so long? After some time, months or years, the residual field in the core disappears. If you have a search for "polarising a lucas dynamo" you'll find a load of examples and quite a few vids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 After a bit more reading Im even more convinced that the problem is with the regulator cut out (assuming you have all the wiring correct of course) as Mr Google says this should open as the generator output drops off to stop a reverse flow of current through it which can make it run as a motor. In fact a recommended test to prove a good dynamo is to connect its terminals to the power supply so it does just that. The free to download WSM is excellent for setting up the regulator and shows the cut out coil as the right hand one whose contact must be open when the ignition is on but engine not running..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimEllis Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 Thanks everyone for the help and advice, I have been able to narrow down the problem with all your help and I've basically bought a new regulator box. Thankfully James Paddock is near by to where I am staying so I dropped in and replaced my old unit. On closer inspection some of the points had fused together which I hadn't realised happened and so a new one was the best course of action. I dropped it in place and wired everything up and basically nothing happened.... brilliant just what I wanted and such a relief not to see the dynamo spinning around, so I could crack on with the other bits. The original pulley? made of plastic with vents was totally destroyed and quite dangerous as it splintered up the drive. I have thankfully got a new/old/rusted one which was £4 from James Paddock, this time all metal and with a fan section that fitted neatly, not sure if is the original type but it fits perfectly with the right clearance and will do the job in the short time. the fan section needed beating out, straighteing and rubbed down but it looks the part now. I also re-polorised the old dynamo, gave it a good clean and checked everything over. I did also check this before I replaced the regulator box and it kept spinning around so I assume it is actually fine. The noise had passed also so I leave it in for now and see what happens tomorrow. I can only guess that the original pulley had something to do with the noise and the old fan belt, which I have now replaced, bit of a long drawn out process but we will see. So I still have a good dynamo spare incase, all the bits to replace it easily and I've learnt a few things. I still need to track down a rhythmic thudding tapping, coming from the front, it isn't loud and I wonder if it was always there and I've just got use to modern cars? I don't like leaving things like this so I'll have a look around again. Thanks again and look forward to being part of the club. Cheers, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Result! Its something I sometimes consider on my Vitesse as it still has the original regulator and it wont last for ever.... Does the replacement unit need setting up or is it ready for use out of the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimEllis Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 I took it that the regulator was fine straight out of the box, do you think I need to check it? Cheers, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Id ask the supplier but would have thought it'd need adjusting or at least checking..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimEllis Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 I checked the item over and can see it is the same model as the previous one. Also the adjustments also seem to be set at the same positions so I guess they are all standard. I've given the car a run, tested all the lights etc and everything seems fine so I'll take it out for a longer distance run and report back. I'll upgrade things in the winter and have a look at appropriate mods. I've run the car now for 15 years and covered over 20,000 miles with it in this condition so I guess it must be ok but may benefit from improvements. Thanks, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Iain, you know we're talking about the dynamo regulator not the instrument supply stabliser? Ive never seen an electronic regulator for the dynamo as I thought most people, if they want to update, just go for an alternator conversion..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Tim, my standard system has been fine for 30+ years so I'll probably leave it like that unless I want to fit one of those Chinese electric superchargers😍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimEllis Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 So I took the car out for a quick run and the ignition light wouldn't go out. It stayed on throughout the journey so I'll have to look into why this is. If anyone suggests any other way I thought I'd 1.) check all the earths including the engine earth strap, maybe run a jump lead from the engine onto the chassis just to double check 2.) check all the connectors, 3.) swop the dynamo over and see if that works. I always thought classic motoring was meant to be fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Thanks Iain, is there any advantage in keeping the dynamo with a new SS regulator as opposed to going to an alternator? Tim, if everything is connected correctly the ign light on should mean that the dynamo isnt running the system so the battery is supplying everything and wont last long! As you say first check all connectors and earths especially on the dynamo and new regulator. However in the end it might be that the regulator voltage setting isnt high enough and according to the manual it certainly looks easy enough to check it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 I think the regulators are just copies (Chinese?) of the OEM item and dont know if they'll last 50 years..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimEllis Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 So I got up super early checked everything, and I now can only think the regulator box needs adjusting but I don't have the right tool to do this so I am not sure how to proceed. I have checked and replaced most things and I can only think this might be the case. Is there anything else I can do just to make sure I haven't missed anything obvious? I've also checked the voltage regulator box and it is sealed up so I assume it was set up at the factory, would this need to be altered or adjusted regularly? Cheers, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimEllis Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 One last question before I give up. Would the age of the battery have anything to do with it? Many thanks, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Morning, I cant see the battery being the problem as a lower battery voltage will actually mean the ign light goes out earlier as the dynamo can produce sufficient voltage to cancel it sooner. You could disconnect the connection labelled 'WL' at the regulator and this should extinguish the ign light. To test the voltage output of the reg it says disconnect both wires on 'B' and connect them well together. Then start the engine and measure the voltage to earth at 'D' where the reading should be between 14.7 - 15.3v at 2200 engine rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimEllis Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Thank you but I have now tried everything and just can't see a way forward. I've checked all the connections, I have a new dynamo correctly polarised, cleaned all connections, replaced the regulator which is set up correctly and checked everything with a volt meter. There is 14 or so volts coming from the dynamo the battery is fully charged. But still the ignition light won't come off, I just don't know what to try, I really need to use the car but I think I'll have to give up and get a train. Very frustrating. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 have you tried disconnecting the ign light connector at the reg.? An earth fault on this wire would leave the ign light permanently on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 If the dynamo is putting out 14V and the battery is also at 14V then it is charging. The problem is with the light or the control thereof. Try glang's suggested test - if the light is on when not connected to the regulator then you have a short in your wiring somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Hutchings Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 This may sound a little irresponsible, but if you're happy that it's charging, and you've measured and adjusted 'Voltage Setting', 'Current Setting', 'Cut-in Voltage' and 'Drop-off Voltage' as per Workshop Manual, then I'd say you're ok to drive it and sort out the dodgy ignition light later. If you don't have access to the Workshop Manual settings and procedure I can take some pics for you. It looks to me like it'll take a while to check them through and you'd need some wire jumpers. The cam adjusting tool is nice to have, but they can be turned (especially on a new unit) with other tools. Sometimes working on cars isn't fun, but imagine the relief when it's fixed! 🙌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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