alloy radiators your thoughts?

[Martins Stag]

Gents

I have to take my radiator out over the winter and I have been looking at all the radiators on ebay both original and Aluminium. I am aware that some of the Chinese Alloy ones are  a bit on the thin side but I was wondering should I spend the extra and get a UK Alloy one or an I wasting my time?

Also which are the stronger for that un-expected stone attack moment?

Any advise would be gratefully received

Martin

[JohnD]

I use a Honda Civic R one, less than £100, needed brackets TIGged on.
Stones?  That's what the radaitor grille is for!
Jiohn

[Clive]

Aluminium or copper will both hole, as indeed we saw in July. But ally may just have the edge?? Copper easier to repair.

As to best rad, I am sure most will be fine. But somebody may be able to advise which to avoid.

[DJT]

Alloy radiator in the Stag is purely for 'bling' purposes if you've got plenty of money. Standard radiator is well up to the job if it has a good core and the rest of the block is clear of crap. I've been using standard radiators (either bought from JP or recored locally) for 28 years and getting on for 100,000 miles with no sign of over heating problems.
Copper is better at losing heat than aluminium.

[Martins Stag]

Clive Collins issue was what made me think of this. I think the radiator looks a bit fragile and I think it may be the original so it could be 40 years old.....

I have the electric fan to fit but following Andy Cooks experience on electric fans I am having a think about that too!

I think I will take the radiator out and give it a reverse flush and take a view from there....

I think I will add the Stagwebber fan shrouds to the radiator too. I think this will increase the effecency

Martin

[Clive]

Is it overheating at all?
A good flush of the entire system may be a good idea, not sure about using speedflush or other chemical cleaners in it though. Guess you could fill the rad with some cleaner when off the car though.

I am a big fan (unintended pun) of shrouds.

Re electric fans, all very difficult. You don't need a fan at all when moving above a walking pace. But when you stop, you ideally want something gently blowing air through the engine bay, way before a "proper" rad fan would kick in. I know 2 or 3 speed fans are available, but getting it to switch on slow when stationary would not be easy.

[StagNL]

If yours is OK then I would stick with it and not try to fix something that isn't broken.
If yours is stuffed, I'd keep with the original setup as DJT also says.
If your car is overheating first make sure everything is up to standard before replacing the radiator.  Before you know it you may still have an overheating problem despite fitting an alloy radiator and heater tank and electric water pump.  Cause needs addressing, not symptoms.

Julian

[DJT]

Quoted from cliftyhanger

You don't need a fan at all when moving above a walking pace. But when you stop, you ideally want something gently blowing air through the engine bay, way before a "proper" rad fan would kick in.

That is what the original viscous coupled fan is for. It only operates at engine speeds below about 2500rpm. Above that the viscous fluid inside 'sheers' and the fan freewheels. Many owners don't know how it works, or how to test it. This leads to all sorts of problems when it fails, such as overheating when stationary. Fit the original fan, with a good coupling. It is amazing how much air you can feel blowing around your feet when you stand beside the driver's door with the engine running and the bonnet shut.

[CharliesStag]

The fan debate is an interesting one.  I have a viscous fan on my modern.

However, a well known Magazine editor in the States tested a few different fans.  The results were surprising:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdLgaFXZzs

FWIW mine was OK with just the electric Kenlowe.  A better fitment and shrouding would have made it more effective however.

[DJT]

There are couplings that look similar but which work on temperature. Some have a bi-metallic or clutch spring inside. These freewheel at low temps, but engage as the temperature rises. Quite the opposite to the ones fitted to Stags (and some other Triumphs and Land Rovers) which are not affected by temperature, only rotational speed. None of the ones tested in that video were of the Viscous type. The Stag VC uses virtually no power at speed as it freewheels.

[CharliesStag]

Quoted from DJT

There are couplings that look similar but which work on temperature. Some have a bi-metallic or clutch spring inside. These freewheel at low temps, but engage as the temperature rises. Quite the opposite to the ones fitted to Stags (and some other Triumphs and Land Rovers) which are not affected by temperature, only rotational speed. None of the ones tested in that video were of the Viscous type. The Stag VC uses virtually no power at speed as it freewheels.

This is true ; my BMW uses a similar coupling to the one that he first tested.  He did however go on to say that in his opinion that an RPM dependant coupling would cause a similar power loss given that the VC tested was cold ; it had a dummy radiator in place along with the room being cold.

It would be interesting to see what actual difference the lack of fan made on a Stag unless someone has already done it.

While I have nothing against the Stag VCs I do have something against the new items being of varying quality.

But we are straying off topic here .

I've had a copper radiator on mine and been fine.

The one thing the copper rad offers is that they are rebuildable.  I'm sure Ally items are too but it is not as simple.

But Copper rads can be fussier on the coolant requirements (i.e, non-OAT preferably) due to the tanks being soldered onto the core.

While Copper has a higher heat transfer ability over Aluminium the soldered joints can impair that, meaning that Ally actually has a more uniform heat transfer ability due to no lead or brass being in the mix, thus no differing metals.

If it were me I'd probably stick with a 4 core gill and tube radiator until they became too pricey to recore ; only then would I consider an Ally item.

[StagNL]

Quoted from CharliesStag

It would be interesting to see what actual difference the lack of fan made on a Stag unless someone has already done it.

I took mine off several years ago and decided to go for an electric one in front of the standard radiator.
The car runs perfectly without the VC fan and the electric only comes on on really hot days while stationary for a long time such as traffic jams.  Been on long runs on hot days and as soon as the car gets moving I see the needle drop purely from the windflow.

Julian

[Roger Keys]

Quoted from CharliesStag

The fan debate is an interesting one.  I have a viscous fan on my modern.

However, a well known Magazine editor in the States tested a few different fans.  The results were surprising:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdLgaFXZzs

FWIW mine was OK with just the electric Kenlowe.  A better fitment and shrouding would have made it more effective however.

Still working fine without the mechanical fan

What improved it as ive posted before was fitting a spoiler, an exercise ive just repeated on "new stag" with the exact same results.

[Flying Farmer]

When I got my first Stag I removed the original fan and viscous coupling and fitted an 2 speed Kenlowe.
I found the temperature gauge would not stay steady, varying with speed and load. This was the only car I have ever had this problem on apart from a Sprint with an obviously knackered radiator.
The original 3 row radiator looked good, but I decided to fit an uprated 4 row from Rimmers. As the exchange surcharge was only £30 I kept the old rad. Just as well, as the new rad made absolutely no difference whatsoever.
Next I fitted a TR6 spoiler, that worked wonders at keeping the temp stable, and the fan only comes on when stuck in traffic.
The original 3 row rad was subsequently fitted to my second Stag along with a TR6 spoiler and 2 speed Kenlowe and has been adequate to cool well over 200bhp on a track day thrashing and climbing mountain passes in the French Alps.

[CharliesStag]

Quoted from roger keys

Still working fine without the mechanical fan

What improved it as ive posted before was fitting a spoiler, an exercise ive just repeated on "new stag" with the exact same results.

Excellent stuff.  One issue is that alot of the fans sold out there cannot move the air.  My RST had this problem but then it was short of space everywhere!

The spoiler analogy is interesting!  I knew you had good results with my old Stag, as did StagDad on his.  Seeing as you've had the same results on the new car that can only mean good things.  It's not like it is a pricey modification either.

[Roger Keys]

Im convinced about the spoiler.

Having just done the 10CR, we had a few stints of 90mph plus sustained running and a short one at 100mph. Gauge never moved at all.

Before the spoiler it would rise a bit and drop almost immediately after coming off the power.

[mole42]

Quoted from CharliesStag

Excellent stuff.  One issue is that alot of the fans sold out there cannot move the air.  My RST had this problem but then it was short of space everywhere!

The one I fitted to my Stag was sold as a "push or pull" fan, you are instructed to simply reverse the wiring connections. The fan is shaped to move maximum air in one direction only, so when reversed, it didn't do much at all. I took the fan off the motor, reversed it and hey presto! it moves nearly enough air to move the car forward on it's own.

[RAGTOP]

Hi.  I am interested in the spoiler idea.  can anyone put some pictures of them.
Thanks  Alan

[mole42]

I have just spent 2 hours almost stationery in city Centre traffic - the M5 has been closed today and all the traffic has come through Bristol at 5pm......
My Stag didn’t even think about overheating.
Retain the copper radiator, it works better than any aluminium radiator ever could. If you have an old copper one, get it recored at a fraction of the cost of a new aluminium one and you’ll never regret it.

[Martins Stag]

Thanks for all your input looks like the best option, I think, is the Tony Hart Supergill radiator so I have just ordered one.. I am going to try and run it without an additional electric fan and see how if goes. Another question I do have is  the Thermostat the same as a Spitfire /GT6 and what temperature should it be?

Thanks

Martin

[DJT]

Quoted from Martins Stag

Thanks for all your input looks like the best option, I think, is the Tony Hart Supergill radiator so I have just ordered one.. I am going to try and run it without an additional electric fan and see how if goes. Another question I do have is  the Thermostat the same as a Spitfire /GT6 and what temperature should it be?

Thanks

Martin

Try this, and read what is written beside each option:http://www.ldparts.co.uk/shop/.....ge.x=0&image.y=0

It all depends on what inlet manifold you have; Mk1 or Mk2. Don't go on the year of the car, as the manifold may have been changed in the past. I've run an 88 degree 'stat for many years, with a standard radiator, and have NO overheating problems.