essjaycarp Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hi all,another bit of help please.The car has been off road for 7 years.New petrol now out of a cannister to try to get it started.Unleaded fuel with octane booster.Carbs stripped and no sticking needle valve, it functions fine with the floats floating as they should and closing off the needle valveFloat height set to 19mm as per manual.Tappets all reset from cold. ( 7 years of cold!)Coolant system re done and new water pump.Mechanical pump pushing fuel into carbs.Carbs filling up with fuelSpark from HT leadsSpark from coil to distributor,Distributor cap spot onPlug elecrode gaps reset and cleanedSeems to be a vacuum to draw fuel into cylindrs as the plugs are getting wet with fuelBUT it will not fire up. It is as if I had taken the dizzy off and refitted it 180 degrees out. But it worked when it went to bed 7 years ago!The car did fire up and run the other day for around a minute, but after I turned it off and it will not start againStarter motor working and cranking engine : not a high torque one, just the standard spec starter motor.Battery newRan it flat turning car over but had jump leads on hand.SO I have fuel going inFuel seems to be in cylinders, sparks are present from spark plugs, pump is pushing fuel fine but not firing.I have electronic ignition fitted, I do not know how to check this but would assume as the car ran for a short period, although very lumpy, then the electronic ignition was ok?PLEASE HELP.I thought I had this nailed, but I am struggling...Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 9950 wrote:Hi all,another bit of help please.The car has been off road for 7 years.New petrol now out of a cannister to try to get it started.Unleaded fuel with octane booster.Carbs stripped and no sticking needle valve, it functions fine with the floats floating as they should and closing off the needle valveFloat height set to 19mm as per manual.Tappets all reset from cold. ( 7 years of cold!)Coolant system re done and new water pump.Mechanical pump pushing fuel into carbs.Carbs filling up with fuelSpark from HT leadsSpark from coil to distributor,Distributor cap spot onPlug elecrode gaps reset and cleanedSeems to be a vacuum to draw fuel into cylindrs as the plugs are getting wet with fuelBUT it will not fire up. It is as if I had taken the dizzy off and refitted it 180 degrees out. But it worked when it went to bed 7 years ago!The car did fire up and run the other day for around a minute, but after I turned it off and it will not start againStarter motor working and cranking engine : not a high torque one, just the standard spec starter motor.Battery newRan it flat turning car over but had jump leads on hand.SO I have fuel going inFuel seems to be in cylinders, sparks are present from spark plugs, pump is pushing fuel fine but not firing.I have electronic ignition fitted, I do not know how to check this but would assume as the car ran for a short period, although very lumpy, then the electronic ignition was ok?PLEASE HELP.I thought I had this nailed, but I am struggling...Thank you Spark....the one thing you did not mention was, ....plug out attached to lead and then earth....was the plug sparking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essjaycarp Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Ah,,,,yes. I forgot to put that in my things I had done list, but thanks for considering it anywaySpark fine from all HT leads and plugs.Tested the lead from the coil also. That was sparking fine as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Moved the distributor?Timing out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedTaylor Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 After trying to start the engine have you removed the plugs to see what they are like - are they wet?MUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitesse203 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 If you have a timing light you can check that no. 1 is firing in the correct place.Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Could you have an air leak? Carb gaskets all ok? If you had the manifolds off when you replaced the water pump, did you use a new gasket? Worth ruling out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essjaycarp Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Hi all plugs are getting wet so fuel going inDizzy had not been movedNew gaskets usedwater pump body was off and new gaskets usedOn the other end of the inlet manifold there is a connector going to the smiths heater valve, I disconnected that and put new fibre washes and sealant on a bolted it all up.I can just assume timing is out now. I do not know how to do that but need to learn.Not sure how to check if No 1 is firing in the right placeAll HT leads connected up in the correct order to each cylinder from the distributor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Set the crank to Top Dead Centre by the gauge on the pulley wheel.Take off the rocker cover.Look at the rockers on No.1 and No.6 bores.One will have the valves slightly open - that is NOT the firing cylinder.If No.1's valves are slightly open, turn crank one revolution, when its valves will be closed and No.1 is on the firing stroke.Now look at the rotor arm.Is it pointing at the No.1 plug lead contact?If not, correct by re-inserting in the cap.Check the order of the rest from there.NB! the order goes ANTI-clockwise!Next time you try to start, use your jump leads with the 'donor' vehicle's engine running, don't wait until you have run down your Vitesse battery. Bad for the battery to run it flat, and better for the engine to have full volts until you get tired.I note your point about wet plugs, with the supposition that fuel is getting in there in the right quantities at the right time. But try some "KwikStart" AKA "Start ya b*st*rd" spray as a diagnostic test. If it starts and runs for a few moments on that, then it's not an ignition problem but a fuelling one.JOhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 to check timing without a strob ..you dont need a strobe as the electronic unit works as a switch just as the old points sos asmall pea bulb connected between coil neg and earth will alight as the leccy unit triggers just the same as when you had points .turn engine slowly till lamp just lights and look at the timiming pointerdo take out the HT king lead or or she may fire up.wet plugs can be due to lack of choke and continual attemps to fire up, the fuel builds up as wet and unburnt , the culprit may be the choke just is not giving enough richness to fire up a cold engine .Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedTaylor Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 In your attempts to start the car after you first had it running you may have built up a lot of fuel in the cylinders and possibly the manifold - hence wet plugs.Take all the plugs out and with no choke spin the engine over for a period of time but keep back as any surplus fuel will be blasted out of the plug holes. When nothing more comes out replace plugs and try to start again but initially with no choke.Although there is no need to do it please do not have any plugs in the plug leads. This can cause any fuel blasted out of the plug holes to ignite in the engine bay as an earthed plug resting on the engine head/block sparks. Been there - done that :-/If you still have plug wetting problems (check each cylinder to see if one is a particular problem) you may need to leave the plugs out while the car is standing for an extended period of time to let any traces of fuel evaporate. MUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 What type of electronic ignition is fitted? Are you able to remove and fit points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essjaycarp Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Thanks everyone for the input. I have taken notes and learnt a lot there.When I built the carbs back up. It appears I have put oil in that is way too heavy preventing the pistons rising up in the body of the carb. Not sure if this would impact on initial firing up though as the carb piston is raised up anyway whe the choke bar is rotated via choke cable.I ran out of time and car gone off to a classic car guy who is good with Triumphs. I talked him through all I had done. His first line to follow was the heavy oil in the dash pots and take it from there.Static timing showed car was set up ok, all leads correct from distributor to correct cylinder etc. I will write solution notes up when the car comes back. It hurts as I did not manage to do it myself even though I had set it up running in the past. I thought engine oil was OK for the dash pots, but he said it had to be a pretty light oil. Once again I really appreciate all you taking time to help me. I have learnt a lot thereCheersEss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essjaycarp Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Thanks everyone for the input. I have taken notes and learnt a lot there.When I built the carbs back up. It appears I have put oil in that is way too heavy preventing the pistons rising up in the body of the carb. Not sure if this would impact on initial firing up though as the carb piston is raised up anyway whe the choke bar is rotated via choke cable.I ran out of time and car gone off to a classic car guy who is good with Triumphs. I talked him through all I had done. His first line to follow was the heavy oil in the dash pots and take it from there.Static timing showed car was set up ok, all leads correct from distributor to correct cylinder etc. I will write solution notes up when the car comes back. It hurts as I did not manage to do it myself even though I had set it up running in the past. I thought engine oil was OK for the dash pots, but he said it had to be a pretty light oil. Once again I really appreciate all you taking time to help me. I have learnt a lot thereCheersEss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedTaylor Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Thanks for the update - feedback is always appreciated.The correct oil is indeed thin, an SAE 10 or 20 grade, but a lot of us use 20W50 engine oil with no problems. Straight 30 and thicker may be too much. When you put the cars back together did you ensure that the jets were central to the needles. When I bought Woodie it ran fine (previous owner had had the cards restored professionally) but gradually it became harder to start and especially restart when warm, and fuel consumption was getting 'orrible.When we were checking the car in preparation for the RB(R)R we looked at the problem and found that one piston was sticking because some how the piston had shifted in relation to the jet and once centralised all was fine (and hoping that the time being off centre has not worn the jet).When the piston is lifted it should drop steadily and bottom out with a satisfying 'clunk' even with the oil in the dashpot which is primarily to stop piston flutter.MUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzer Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I would have advised checking the compressions before doing anything, but you may have already done this. The heavy oil might have made it a tad rich but quite helpful for a cold start. Look forward to hearing the solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yes, thanks for the report-back, and sorry that you ran out of time to fix it.These little [s]b******** [/s]beauties can do that to you.Hope to hear good news, and for you to hear burbling delight in a short time!JOhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don cook1 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 When ever I have messed about with the distributor and not sure where I'm at, I do this, and pretty much as John described: take out No.1 plug and turn engine until compression felt by thumb over hole (push it in 4th gear), that's the compression stroke. I back off to 10deg BTDC and get the rotor arm pointing to No.1 lead. With the ignition on and, with plug in the lead and earthed,. I then turn the distributor until I can see the spark plug spark, tighten up. That has always been good enough to start and doesn't need the rocker cover being removed, finish off with strobe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpeg.b15b81ef10abeea1c3039ae03c4a9f3a.jpeg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.